WOW actually considering adding in TA awesome.  Although I am not sure how you are going to tone down our damage as it is extremely low in the first place.  The AOE that everyone complains about isn't coming from a magus.  Look more at the Engy, Sorc, BW, Choppa, Slayers.

I mean our two bread and butter skills (Glean and Pand) combine do less the 2k damage over xx seconds.  Although with the addition of TA it could become a bit overpowerd since we would live longer and cast more of it. 

For the first time in a long time I am feeling a bit of hope for my Main character.

My main worry is the fact that if aoe is getting nerfed, where does that leave us? Our single target DPS tree isn't exactly that great. Perils of the Warp is to be avoided. Bolt of Change has too long of a cast time, and too long of a cooldown. Flickering Red Fire and Surging Violet Fire aren't exactly noteworthy. If they say they are increasing damage of these, that better mean they are increasing damage of these by alot. Mutating Violet Fire likewise has too long of a cast time, and so on. And then there is all of the pointless tactics for abilities in that tree as well.

Do we actually have any abilities with a "high base damage" that will benefit from big int? Heh.

All three trees could use some work not just Havoc but that's a start I guess.

Other than possible throwing arm addition I'm not seeing any improvements based on the huge feedback thread we submitted weeks ago. Sigh.

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Akalukz wrote:

WOW actually considering adding in TA awesome.  Although I am not sure how you are going to tone down our damage as it is extremely low in the first place.  The AOE that everyone complains about isn't coming from a magus.  Look more at the Engy, Sorc, BW, Choppa, Slayers.

 

I mean our two bread and butter skills (Glean and Pand) combine do less the 2k damage over xx seconds.  Although with the addition of TA it could become a bit overpowerd since we would live longer and cast more of it. 

 

For the first time in a long time I am feeling a bit of hope for my Main character.

Message Edited by Akalukz on 05-14-2009 02:02 PM

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 THe Magus damage was fine post 1.2.1.  If you weren't in the top 5 of most damage in an SC post 1.2.1 then I suggest you change your playstyle or hit the forums and ask questions.

These sound like very minor changes to the Changing mastery and major changes to the Havoc mastery and probably for the best.   At level 36 I have been wrecking face and topping damage charts in SCs with a full changing spec so these changes don't suprise me.  I think they listened the Magus community's wish for a better single target DPS role and they are making an effort to provide that.  

Kudos to Mythic. 

Not to crush your hopes of TA but, from the engi preview:

 Iit probably won't be as effective as you guys percieved, but it should still be a decent improvement.

Hope to see more of you guys out and about with some of these changes! 

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Zulton wrote:

 THe Magus damage was fine post 1.2.1.  If you weren't in the top 5 of most damage in an SC post 1.2.1 then I suggest you change your playstyle or hit the forums and ask questions.

 

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I am one of those that believe that the scoreboards on Scenarios are worthless.  I am talking about actual usefullness to a team.  Anyone and Everyone can get insane damage numbers in a scenario with a pocket healer and good healing on the opposing side as well.  But not all classes can actually bring something "useful" to a group and the magus (excluding rift) is one of those that can't.  I have played my magus since Open Beta and it is the only character I have.  I don't play a great deal of time but I can say that I do feel that I know my class and my role in a group (well those I play with) fairly well. 

The magus hasn't been fine since release.  It has never had any focus given to it to help define its role on the battlefield.  The only utility to speak of is Rift and a rift group does work well with the right group dynamics...but take away rift and what do you have?  High numbers in scenarios but not much else because 90% of groups would rather take another class if you aren't running Rift. 

Just my opinion, it is neither right nor wrong...it just is.

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Akalukz wrote:

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Zulton wrote:

 THe Magus damage was fine post 1.2.1.  If you weren't in the top 5 of most damage in an SC post 1.2.1 then I suggest you change your playstyle or hit the forums and ask questions.

 

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I am one of those that believe that the scoreboards on Scenarios are worthless.  I am talking about actual usefullness to a team.  Anyone and Everyone can get insane damage numbers in a scenario with a pocket healer and good healing on the opposing side as well.   

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You are absolutely right but your comment is off topic.  I was merely addressing the fact that some of the Magus community feel like damage is an issue with the Changing Mastery and it is not.   All the trees are very useful and very effective from my experience.

Magus might come out better than others with the AoE changes; our DValues are generally higher (being lots of DoTs) so if the stat contribution changes mesh with the AoE damage losses, the Magus might come out not much worse for wear.

That, and we have some insane DValue powers in the Havoc tree. Bolt of Change, Mutating Blue Fire, Withered Soul, and Baleful Transmogrification could become very, very good.

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Magus will see a number of AoE adjustments including, but not limited to, the following:

 

• Many AoE abilities have had their effective radius reduced, returning their radius to pre-1.2.1 patch values.

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Below is a list of changes that are currently pending for version 1.3, but will be updated to PTS after the initial launch of the test server.

 

• Bonus damage from Intelligence will now have a much greater effect on abilities with high base damage, but a reduced effect on abilities with low base damage.

 

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 As far as iu can see we have 3 maybe 4 abilities with "high base damage". that woudl be Bolt of Change, Withered Soul (maybe since it's over 20s duration), Pandemonium (relative to other changing abilities), Baleful Transmogrification (since it's just a single target pandemonium).

Hopefully this doesn't mean you are reducing the overall damage on any of our abilities.

• ---

  A number of AoE abilities have been reduced in effectiveness through reductions in damage, or increase in AP cost/cooldown.

  ---

Hopefully you aren't toning down ANY of the Magus AOE abilities. Honestly Magus AOE is exactly how AOE should be. Even if I throw all my aoe on a group I don't kill them. Even with a M2 roiling winds I'll burn most of them from full health to half health, and that's how it shoudl be. Aoe shoudl not completely kill a group of people, it shoudl only "bring em down a notch" so other people can finish em off, and that's exactly what the magus currently does.

If you reduce the effectiveness of firestorm please remove the excessive pushback on it.

 

• ---

  Improved overall damage for the Havoc Mastery Path.

  ---

Awesome! It really could use a boost. Hopefully this means Perils of the Warp too.

• ---

  Minor adjustments to "mirror" abilities to bring them more in-line with their Engineer counterparts.

  ---

Not sure what this means. Are engineer abilities receiving more contribution from stats than ours or somehting?

 

 

 

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• Addition of a specialist Tactic to match Engineer Throwing arm for the path of changing line

 

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Wow great thanks. As soon as you nerf it. Let engineers have all the "real" fun with it for 6 months, then give the tablescraps of what's left of it to the magus. I assume it will make all our 65ft abilities 80ft. I guess it will at least let us use them from keeps now, but on flat ground 65->80ft is less than 1 second of movement.

Honestly you shoudl just change all the grenadier/changing AOE to 80ft base and give throwing arm to shadow warriors. I mean, why is our tree 65ft like the SW/SH when both their 65ft trees allow casting on the move and ours doesn't?

 

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• The Close Quarters Tactic will be reviewed to ensure that its bonus does not brokenly increase the effectiveness of PBAoE and AoE abilities for ranged careers.

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Magus will see a number of AoE adjustments including, but not limited to, the following:

 

• Many AoE abilities have had their effective radius reduced, returning their radius to pre-1.2.1 patch values.

 

 

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Does anyone know what these values were if they even changed at all?  I personally don't remember these values changing. 

For the love of god, fix our tactics.

takes what... 6 tactics to make surging violet fire effective, consolidate the heal/cooldown/crit tactics

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AdamG wrote:

Greetings,

 

As many of you are aware, WAR's 1.3 patch is rapidly approaching! Before we open up the Public Test Server and release the patch notes, we wanted to sit down with each career's community and give them a rough idea of what to expect from 1.3.

 

Patch 1.3's major balance changes focus on the balancing of direct damage vs. area-of-effect abilities.   All careers should expect to see AoE effectiveness reduced across the board. This reduction can come in a change to damage/healing, AP cost, or effect radius, and will vary from ability to ability.

 

RDPS careers were initially planned to only have minor adjustments to AoE radius values for 1.3; however, due to feedback from our internal testers, we are moving forward with more significant adjustments to direct damage/AoE  abilities. Due to the scope of the changes, they will not arrive with the initial launch of 1.3's public test server. Instead, they will be released in a patch to PTS shortly after testing begins. 

 

Magus will see a number of AoE adjustments including, but not limited to, the following:

 

• Many AoE abilities have had their effective radius reduced, returning their radius to pre-1.2.1 patch values.

 Most Magus abilities do not have a particularly large radius to begin with so I'm unclear why this change would need to be made (it's not like we have an extra powder tactic after all). Also, all our AoE abilities are limited to 65 ft or less, with the only ones doing direct damage rather than a dot being closer to melee range. The only exception to this is Tzeentch's firestorm, which considering it is a high level mastery ability I feel it should get a buff as it is currently worse than Rain of Fire which is a non-mastery ability.

 

Below is a list of changes that are currently pending for version 1.3, but will be updated to PTS after the initial launch of the test server.

 

• Bonus damage from Intelligence will now have a much greater effect on abilities with high base damage, but a reduced effect on abilities with low base damage.

 Makes sense, you don't want instant casts scaling like 3 second casts so they destroy everything. However, how will this effect dots? Will the scalin be based on the total damage of the spell (like it should) or will it be based on each tic (thus screwing the Magus)?

 

• A number of AoE abilities have been reduced in effectiveness through reductions in damage, or increase in AP cost/cooldown.

 Great to hear, however keep in mind that the groups you hear about killing everyone via PBAoE bombing are BW or Sorc heavy, not Magus. Our primary attacks are dots, and dots are meant to do damage slowly and require us to either stack many of them (meaning we have to cast for a good 5 seconds at 65 ft or less to get them all out) and even when dots are stacked they can be healed through by a competent healer unless the Magus then begins direct damage attacks.

 

• Improved overall damage for the Havoc Mastery Path.

No complaints here, but I'd also like to see increased damage for the Daemonology path. If Close Quarters is getting nerfed it means Daemonolgy damage will be nerfed as well. Most Daemonology Magi stack more defensive stats than their Havoc or Changing counterparts because they are more likely to take heavy damage. This results in a discrepancy in damage output between classes that Close Quarters helps bridge. Therefore, I would hope that Daemonology will be evaluated in comparison to the other paths in light of the Close Quarters changes as it is the path most affected by that tactic change.

 

• Minor adjustments to "mirror" abilities to bring them more in-line with their Engineer counterparts.

 Also good, I'm interested to hear what these proposed changes are. Also, while you're at it, let Engineers just use ballistic skill for their melee damage, like you let WH use strength for their ranged damage.

 

Finally, we are investigating the following items that will potentially be added into 1.3 during the PTS phase, or in a follow up patch after 1.3.

 

• Addition of a specialist Tactic to match Engineer Throwing arm for the path of changing line

 It's about damned time.

 

• The Close Quarters Tactic will be reviewed to ensure that its bonus does not brokenly increase the effectiveness of PBAoE and AoE abilities for ranged careers.

 Sounds good to me. Just make sure you re-evaluate those careers that have a melee casting spec line in relation to this change.

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On a final note I have a general design question. From my understanding ranged physical DPS classes (Engineers) can use weapon skill so that some if not all of their attacks bypass a % of armor. However it seems magical DPS has very few if any methods to debuff resistances so that more of their damage can bypass their targets defenses. Has there been any talk of allowing a secondary stat to function this way? Maybe willpower allows bypass of resistances? It seems we're forced to have it on our gear, may as well make it useful.

One more gripe: Fix Daemonic Infestation or replace it with something less awful, its been patched I don't know how many times and it's still useless.

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AdamG wrote:

Greetings,

 

 

•  

• Addition of a specialist Tactic to match Engineer Throwing arm for the path of changing line

 

•  

 

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i know you haven't posted the squig herder one yet but this really doesn't bode well for squig herders.  are you going to remove our bonus range tactic or something?  this trend is just going to make all the classes exact clones of each other if it continues like this..

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Dunnar wrote:
Sounds like my full Changing, close-quarters build is screwed.  I look forward to testing out the changes though.

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This is my concern as well.  Are we going to get caught in a crossfire to nerf Sorcs and BW's?  I'm glad Havoc is getting looked at, but not if it's at the cost of Changing getting gutted.

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Tomahawks wrote:
I am very glad to be getting TA but i hope they dont take away Endless Pand Tactic to replace it.  If  they do have to switch one out i hope its the 1st tactic in that spec line that no one uses.

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I use both and their effects result in a major increase to my DPS and effectiveness on the battlefield.

I think it's hilarious that we only get throwing arm after they nerf aoe AND nerf the range on the tactic. I also see no evidence of a ranged auto attack, which of course will be the next obvious balancing change that won't happen until the magi rain QQ all over the official forums. Maybe after the engineers have their ranged auto attack for another 6 months, mythic might deem it worthy to give us nerfed version.

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Knightrider wrote:

I think it's hilarious that we only get throwing arm after they nerf aoe AND nerf the range on the tactic. I also see no evidence of a ranged auto attack, which of course will be the next obvious balancing change that won't happen until the magi rain QQ all over the official forums. Maybe after the engineers have their ranged auto attack for another 6 months, mythic might deem it worthy to give us nerfed version.

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Regarding Autoattack--

If you guys do get it, expect it to either take into account physical defense like armor or if it uses resistances, expect the engineer's to be changed to match.

 And before you complain about not having weaponskill, please refer to engi complaints about needing Intelligence for EM. 

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Sneedd wrote:

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Knightrider wrote:

I think it's hilarious that we only get throwing arm after they nerf aoe AND nerf the range on the tactic. I also see no evidence of a ranged auto attack, which of course will be the next obvious balancing change that won't happen until the magi rain QQ all over the official forums. Maybe after the engineers have their ranged auto attack for another 6 months, mythic might deem it worthy to give us nerfed version.

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Regarding Autoattack--

If you guys do get it, expect it to either take into account physical defense like armor or if it uses resistances, expect the engineer's to be changed to match.

 And before you complain about not having weaponskill, please refer to engi complaints about needing Intelligence for EM. 

 

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Even more than that, remember that Engi face armor values of anywhere of 20% on cloth to 80% on tanks.

Magi only face 5%-40% depending on resists and debuffs.

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Iarwin wrote:

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Dunnar wrote:
Sounds like my full Changing, close-quarters build is screwed.  I look forward to testing out the changes though.

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This is my concern as well.  Are we going to get caught in a crossfire to nerf Sorcs and BW's?  I'm glad Havoc is getting looked at, but not if it's at the cost of Changing getting gutted.

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Here is the funny part. Our class gets double nerfed every single patch. If they nerf our mirror we have to get nerfs. If they nerf sorcs/bws we get those nerfs as well.

It has happened.. every. single. time.

The changes to havoc had better be extreme as well including a fix to perils.