I am severely disappointed in the lack of front-line survivability increases, much less the lack of an increase in melee healing abilities such as consume essence and transfer essence. This will not stop people from standing in the back and healbotting. It just means they will have to use Blood Offering more often. This falls far short of what needed to happen to return DoKs to melee healing. It's barely even a baby step down that road.

I am glad to see the torture spec getting some love, though.

looking ok. was hoping for cleansing power (we were told that one destro healer would get it) and was hoping for an increase to melee healing effectiveness (like a tactic to increase melee healing radius). Was also hoping for... a complete revamp of some worthless healing tactics we had...

otherwise, to be expected. more specifics mythic! and take KE the other way, too - instant cast/cast on the move + cooldown. makes more sense for our class.

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GoreBat wrote:
Yes true survivability still needs to be adressed.  Far more than anything else atm.  However, at least these changes dont take us back to more underpowered.  I rather see gradual changes like this versus the huge, class breaking nerfs that mythic usually dishes out.  I for one am just glad to see at least AOE is finally being addressed.  Number one thing in the game that needed to be fixed imo.

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I completely agree. Addressing AoE damage and healing is huge, and a great step in the right direction. Who knows, this may increase front-line survivability a bit. I am doubtful, but you never know... At least a reduction in AoE damage should help make our splash healing a *little* more effective. Though, I'd also like to have seen some minor tweaking in consume essence to increase the radius a little. I'll definitely be on the test server to find out by how much these changes effect us and provide as much feedback as I can.

Regen on books/chalic was fine, clearly you haven't played high end game with +15 AP regen. If you have AP problems with RB and AP regen you need some tips on how to play your class.

If DoK's don't get EL changed into smite you guys are going to be totally worthless as healers, and pretty much a joke as DPS.

From Bright Wizard notes:  "Ruin & Destruction will have its stun value reduced."

Now what about Universal Confusion?

They're the exact same morale ability.  If you're nerfing one you have to nerf the other.  Anything else is blatant favoritism or short-sightedness.

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Warlyik wrote:

From Bright Wizard notes:  "Ruin & Destruction will have its stun value reduced."

 

Now what about Universal Confusion?

 

They're the exact same morale ability.  If you're nerfing one you have to nerf the other.  Anything else is blatant favoritism or short-sightedness.

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Go back to your troll cave Furor... Seriously can you open your mouth without flamming someone or a group of people...

A RDPS with a melee range stun is an oxymoron... It's one of the things that most people complain about BW.

And If you read the forums official and warhammer alliance, you will see that many DoKs complain about Universal Confusion not working very good, because it's a IMMUNE spam all over the screen like 75% of the time.

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Kuroiwashi wrote:

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Warlyik wrote:

From Bright Wizard notes:  "Ruin & Destruction will have its stun value reduced."

 

Now what about Universal Confusion?

 

They're the exact same morale ability.  If you're nerfing one you have to nerf the other.  Anything else is blatant favoritism or short-sightedness.

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Go back to your troll cave Furor... Seriously can you open your mouth without flamming someone or a group of people...

 

A RDPS with a melee range stun is an oxymoron... It's one of the things that most people complain about BW.

 

And If you read the forums official and warhammer alliance, you will see that many DoKs complain about Universal Confusion not working very good, because it's a IMMUNE spam all over the screen like 75% of the time.

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How am I flaming anyone by suggesting that since both spells are exactly the same that they should remain that way?

Maybe you should suggest to give Ruin and Destruction to WPs as a true mirror then if you don't like it.  Quite frankly, the DoK version is far more useful and used far more often, making it far more effective.

You attacking me does not change the fact that R&D and UC are exactly the same and as a result should be nerfed in unison because they serve the exact same purpose.

2) Melee healer possibility - should base on your willpower for heal, and strength for damage?

3) Improve Torture - same goes for WP

You know the reason why you see Immune all the time?

Because everyone and their grandma can proc a stun on destro side, WEs AoE knock down procs Immunite for Stun/Knock down, Marauder AoE knock Down, Chosen AoE knock down. 

Know how many order classes spam their AoE knock downs? O wait.. we don't have any except on the engi thats over there spaming naids, and the knight that generally you don't see that many of.

And if you see a BW coming to RaD you, his is generally going to land for that exact reason. While your UC isn't because EVERY Marauder I have ever seen is spaming his knock down as an opener procing 20 seconds of immunity timers on everyone you want to stun.

True WP need their morale fixed, especially their M4, if you want to compare morales... But the changes posted here and in the WP forums (I just read them) have most of our comunity happy or agree on the changes.

I can give you a better example on the UC, You have kill me like 20 times in the past month, and every single time i see you I try to use UC, half of the time Im dead/CC before I can do anything, the other half, I would say maybe 3 out of 10 times UC has actually stunned you, the rest I get the immune spam in my screen. But UC is one of our CCs when we go in the front lines, we only have 3 CCs, our M2, our silence at lvl 35 and our KB at lvl 40, we dont do anything else, and I would say you have the same experience, you cant do much CC at front line because of others CC spam from the same side and the oposition.

I would suggest moving R&D to a M4 like magus have, I have only played a magus besides my dok, so not sure what other range class has a M4 stun, instead of just nerfing everything. IMO Nerf is not the best way to fix things. Asking for nerf for other classes to me is trolling... Especially when from you message it gets out like your upset from the BW stun change/nerf. If you want fairness I would say reduce every single stun in the game instead of just 1 or 2 out there, but again you will see a lot more people complaining about BW stun morale than the DoK morale, I have seen a lot of complaints about our group heal being OP and I have to say I agree with that and the 1.3 will change that for good.

I hope the healing Radius on Consume Essence isn't getting nurfed too...It's small enough as it is.

- Have fun

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Landaren wrote:

You know the reason why you see Immune all the time?

 

Because everyone and their grandma can proc a stun on destro side, WEs AoE knock down procs Immunite for Stun/Knock down, Marauder AoE knock Down, Chosen AoE knock down. 

 

Know how many order classes spam their AoE knock downs? O wait.. we don't have any except on the engi thats over there spaming naids, and the knight that generally you don't see that many of.

 

And if you see a BW coming to RaD you, his is generally going to land for that exact reason. While your UC isn't because EVERY Marauder I have ever seen is spaming his knock down as an opener procing 20 seconds of immunity timers on everyone you want to stun.

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Fight a KoTBS, Slayer, WH, BW and/or IB and get back to me...

Both sides have way to much CC, and that is something everyone agree with. And a BW that runs in stuns everyone, PBAoE everyone to death in 5 seconds is fair how? Now that RoF was fixed/changed, that also had a stun with a morale mind you, most of the BW that stayed are now earth scorches with R&D as a starter.

I dont know other doks, but I personally use UC as a defense instead of offence, unless im with my guild premades and do it on a charge, and still only works half the time for the reason you just explained me

Post edited for attacks / flames

Please keep your discussions civil.

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Borson wrote:

I hope the healing Radius on Consume Essence isn't getting nurfed too...It's small enough as it is.

 

- Have fun

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Sorry to disappoint, but they did reduce the radius of Consume Essence.  Not only that...They INCREASED the cost of Consume Essence! I am just floored. I mean really, why was it necessary? Our melee healing needed HELP not HINDERANCE! This is a horrible horrible change. Looking over the patch notes, it seems they increased the cost of a LOT of Sac abilities:  warding strike, pillage essence, consume essence... devour essence got nerfed (does less dmg). Oh, and our covenenats will not reach as far.

This is pretty absurd.  Increased cost and reduced range on splash healing that had a tiny radius to begin with... just when I thought things were looking to be all good changes to push us away from heal botting...

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Warlyik wrote:

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Kuroiwashi wrote:

True WP need their morale fixed, especially their M4, if you want to compare morales... But the changes posted here and in the WP forums (I just read them) have most of our comunity happy or agree on the changes.

 

*** Yes, it would be nice if the healer M4 for WPs didn't suck completely.  Gift of Life isn't anywhere near the effectiveness of 1001 Dark Blessings.  But there are many other discrepencies that exist between Destro and Order, and apparently since Destro has been doing SOOO much whining since 1.2, they're getting the better end of the deal.  I'd love to see 1001 Mirrored, and Crippling Strikes given to an Order class.  Hell, maybe even to WLs to make us somewhat useful on anything more than a Group vs. Group level.  But this is your forum, and I don't care right now.  All I want is what's fair.  R&D and UC need to be the same.  That is what's fair.

 

I can give you a better example on the UC, You have kill me like 20 times in the past month, and every single time i see you I try to use UC, half of the time Im dead/CC before I can do anything, the other half, I would say maybe 3 out of 10 times UC has actually stunned you, the rest I get the immune spam in my screen. But UC is one of our CCs when we go in the front lines, we only have 3 CCs, our M2, our silence at lvl 35 and our KB at lvl 40, we dont do anything else, and I would say you have the same experience, you cant do much CC at front line because of others CC spam from the same side and the oposition.

 

You ever thought it's because every Destro on Badlands has me on their KoS list and I'm ALWAYS the first one in and thus ALWAYS the lucky receiver of at least a 3s knockdown?  I'm more likely to get a 7s stun to the face than anything, and then nuked down by everyone within a 60 foot radius.  But you don't consider that in your rantings.  UC works fine, it's the fact that Destro has way more AoE disables than Order has that is the problem.  WPs have a single AoE knockback that rarely ever works.  You complaining makes that situation priceless.  A 5s AoE stun on a healer is a tremendous advantage, and every DoK I've ever seen uses it.

 

I would suggest moving R&D to a M4 like magus have, I have only played a magus besides my dok, so not sure what other range class has a M4 stun, instead of just nerfing everything. IMO Nerf is not the best way to fix things. Asking for nerf for other classes to me is trolling... Especially when from you message it gets out like your upset from the BW stun change/nerf. If you want fairness I would say reduce every single stun in the game instead of just 1 or 2 out there, but again you will see a lot more people complaining about BW stun morale than the DoK morale, I have seen a lot of complaints about our group heal being OP and I have to say I agree with that and the 1.3 will change that for good.

 

Again, what is fair is fair, and if R&D deserves a nerf, so does UC, and so does all other CC for that matter.  You think the outcry now is bad?  Wait and see what would happen if some of these ninja changes got through the patch and left Order in a bad state.  I guarantee the next patch won't be nice for Destro.  I'd be leading that "whine" cry too since that's apparently the only way to ever get dev attention anymore.

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To the person suggesting that UC isn't as effective on a DoK:  LOL.  DoKs along with WPs are the most sturdy healers in the game and while the WP gets absolutely nothing, you have a 5s AoE stun as a last resort to protect you.  I'm sorry you don't think it's a huge advantage.  But most people -are- idiots.

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AOE Detaunt *cough*

Make these changes and this is one dok that will no longer be playing your game.

Basically I see large sweeping nerfs to melee healing which consequently was already the weakest part of our class.  Lovely.  The consume essence nerf is the dumbest one.  The ability was literally the only thing that kept us alive as a melee healer and now it costs more + has a smaller radius.  Good grief.  Also some nice damage nerfs across the board that I'm seeing and more of our damage being moved to high cooldown abilities.

You can nerf backline healing into the dirt for all I care, but basically you've gutted the class with these changes and made one playstyle that wasn't even viable to begin with even worse.  It's kind of life nerfing a blackguard or shadow warrior.  

Almost forgot... nerfing fell sacrifice.  Really?  It is quite possibly one of the worst abilities in the game in terms of AOE output, and it gets a nerf?  If you're going to destroy its damage you need to make it instant cast.  Same with the warrior priest's version as it too is garbage.  It needs the damage compressed over a smaller duration as well (like 9 seconds).  Otherwise it just isn't even worth investing a point into (hell, it barely is now).  

Lastly, we better see some viable melee sets with this patch.  Otherwise honestly what is the point of playing a DoK or WP?  If we're going to be forced into melee we need sets that are clearly setup for the dark rites tree, and another that is clearly setup for the other two trees (ie, no willpower on it.  Willpower is useless for melee healing).