1: Yes, it was displayed accurately. There was some discrepancy on the timer, but only by 1 minute or so. That has always been an issue. Synchronization?

2: The PQ was always fun. It's the constant city sieges that were getting too much since the removal of the forts.

3: Yes

4: Yes, but again, see Question #2.

5: Yes and No. When a realm gets to the city, the siege will be short, quick, fun. But, it may just shorten the time in which one realm can get to the city. Instead of 3 times a days, it might be more.

Andy, this is a step in the right direction, making the city sieges shorter and having people work smarter to keep the invaders from going to Stage II, adding more time for ORvR. My question is, what will prevent one realm from constantly invading the city more than what they are at the moment?

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. Yes but only on the PTS, on the real server defenders can't possibly defend all the instances due to imbalances

5. Yes

PS: Faster pace games tends to illustrate imbalance that much faster, it's not a bad thing in my opinion but others may complain at a faster pace too.

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• Did the Victory Point bar accurately display your progress and function as you would expect?
• Did the reduced timers feel better and still allow for the PQ to be fun?
• Did the UI accurately display the objectives and timers involved in the city battle?
• Do you feel that your realm had a reasonable chance of successfully attacking or defending the city?
• Do you feel that these changes will have an overall positive effect on the city siege experience 

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1) Seemed to.  Admittedly I was using SoR more than I was the standard VP bar.

2) Made the PQ a bit more fun in some ways - certainly more challenge.  A lot more brutal and fast paced, which is good.

3) Yep, and there didn't seem to be much in the way of timer discrepancies between players either.

4) Being a Volkmar Destro, the answer to this question is always going to be yes.  But I also think that Order now have a chance of defending too.  Overall it seems to give both sides a potential advantage.

5) Definitely.

Only 3 replies? come on guys i know more participated the Mass Playtest!

Even through i didn't help test, i pretty much guess who got spawn camp until the test is over :S

Did the Victory Point bar accurately display your progress and function as you would expect?

The Victory Point bar, that red and blue bar moved like it always did, I really could not tell any difference, good or bad.  Maybe that is intended, I don't know.  Did it display my realm's progress and function as I would expect, well yes it did move blue when order won and red when destro won a PQ but it was hard to qualify how much movement the bar made for a Stage 1 win or loss and a Stage 2 win or loss.  In time I am sure I will figure it out, but honestly I use a mod for tracking VP on live anyway, so that is what I really watch to track progress and function.

Did the reduced timers feel better and still allow for the PQ to be fun?

Let me qualify my answer by saying I have come to find that the city siege system be it Altdorf or IC is not fun for me anymore.  At one time it was, but no longer; as I have participated in a siege almost every day in the last month, I am just burnt out on it.  Now in that context, I think the reduced timers intensified the fights taking place in the city, by reducing the timer by half of what people are used to.  People seemed to move and flow like what they were doing was Important to whether their realm won or lost the city.  I think that is good, making the fight meaningful, by reducing the time you can fight, makes you want to win even more and if you lose and the other realm flips to Stage 2, at least the pain is only an hour long and then you can queue scenarios, log off, roll alts or farm invader PQ to reduce the timer.  My only complaint and this is specific to Stage 2 of the city is why change the time removed from Stage 2 timer to 15 minutes from 30 minutes?  I understand that the invading realm Needs time to do both Warlord PQs and attempt the King encounter, but the justification that the invading realm Needs time does not thoroughly negate the defender's desire to remove the Siege from their realm. Qualitatively I do not like this change, but Quantitatively I see why Mythic wants to do it, I just respectfully disagree.

Did the UI accurately display the objectives and timers involved in the city battle?

 Yes.

Do you feel that your realm had a reasonable chance of successfully attacking or defending the city?

Short answer is Yes.  Long answer is I think the quality of the player on the PTS is superior to the quality of the player on my server. /salute to the tester!  I think an organized group of 24 players now stands a greater chance of effecting the outcome of the encounter in Stage 1 of the city siege.   However because the players on the test server were all listening and doing their job does not mean "my realm" will have a reasonable chance on offense or defense.  Only time on the live servers will answer that in my opinion.

Do you feel that these changes will have an overall positive effect on the city siege experience?

Yes I do, because if you lose Stage 1 of the city siege, you only spent 1 hour in the city as opposed to 2 hours and for a lot of players that is a Big difference.  The Key here is time, that is the resource you just cut in half and it will free up more time for other things, be it Stage 2 Warlord PQs, King fight, Scenarios, ect.  For the winning side of Stage 1, you have to be on your game to win more so then before and that is a good thing, keeps invaders honest and defenders from being overconfident. 

Thank-you to Andy in particular for running the Mass Playtest and to Mythic for adjusting the City Siege in the right direction.

-inscrutable 

Stage 1 get boring quick on my server when the attacking side just zerg those dozen of defenders and once they flipped to stage 2 its game over for the defenders.

My question is, why won't the game allow defenders to go inside and invade the attackers PQ area? why must there be a restriction? why must there be PVE in a RVR game?

Here is my very simple request: Since Andy is the only active dev here that care for us. I ask you to spawn on the loser side and play with us every time Destro siege our city to see what need to improve to help those defenders going up against 2-3 WB of Destro a fighting chance.

Grant the defenders some sort of assistance, like pushing the enemies back, slay a few, cap a bo once in a while instead of getting spawn camp until it flip to Stage 2..

One of my favorite thing to see is that the system would randomly pick 3 players (preferably those got over 10 killing blows) and spawn them as the General and 2 of it henchman where they get to control them until they die or they reach 50 killing blows. This only work when the defenders are being spawn camp for x amount of minutes.

Buff: Do or die buff to the losers side granting them 150% stats increase for 60 minutes.

WAR need innovation and diversity or you would get the same old boring stuff over and over again and this is why so many left for Aion leaving a HUGE  gap where newbies are putting all the workload and burden for those once high rr players place and this is the main reason why Destro took every Order city due to the population unbalance and with the Fort removal its even worst for the underpop server and it shown in the last few weeks...

 IMO the VP FREEZE was the best feature  for the underdog side since i enjoy every moment of it regardless of the expire timer because knowing even I'm up against overwhelming numbers, they won't able to flip to Stage 2 and we fight till its over.  The only time when the VP start rising  is when the defenders start showing up to match the numbers as the attackers.

This is why i urge the dev to play their game and see how its like to play on the loser side and start improving area that focus on helping the defenders not to give up fighting against the zerg 24/7 that often goes into their city.

Hey guys... great game and thanks for all the hard work

1) I'm so used to SoR, i forgot all about the VP bar... oops

2) Yes: The pace of the fight was much more intense and exciting. It actually took me a little while to adjust to how quickly things were happening. 

3) Yup

4) Yes, with the appropriate amount of communication and organization. Successfully attacking for both realms will require very quick responses, because a solid group or two of defenders can wreak more havoc on the scoreboard than before

5) Yeah, i think so. The shorter duration and increased intensity of the fights should appeal to both newcomers and veterans alike, even though the tasty tasty RPs aren't as plentiful as they could be

To the few guys holding temple with me tonight: I had a blast  

Post removed. Please keep your posts in this thread on topic.

Thank you!

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Did the Victory Point bar accurately display your progress and function as you would expect?

  Yes they seemed clear to me, the points/per flip seemed to update faster as well.

 

Did the reduced timers feel better and still allow for the PQ to be fun?

  I think the over all reduction of the door hit points/points needed per PQ and reduced time will helpkeep the city exciting and fast paced.  As an added benefit it may also reduce instance hopingbecause the 2 min spent changing instances means a lot more under this kind of time pressure.

 

Did the UI accurately display the objectives and timers involved in the city battle?

  Yes

 

Do you feel that your realm had a reasonable chance of successfully attacking or defending the city?

  Yes

 

Do you feel that these changes will have an overall positive effect on the city siege experience 

  Yes, but:  I think that the one hour time puts an even heavier emphasis on population.  Servers withlow population may have more problems with this accelerated mode than higher pop servers.  Thenagain with the VP's scaling based on number of instances active maybe low pop servers will be ableto lock more easily by wining fewer PQ's  we wont know till we get some live server feedback on thatpoint.  Also servers with imbalanced population could be looking at even more city pushes as therewill be less burn out if the first stage is only an hour.

 

ALSO: with the reduction in time, the rebuilding phase should be reduced to 15 min or removed entirely.

 

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• Did the Victory Point bar accurately display your progress and function as you would expect? Yes.
• Did the reduced timers feel better and still allow for the PQ to be fun? The current PQ seemed to feel like a drag after both sides had about 600 points each. I was always exhausted after about an hour, so yeah it's good.
• Did the UI accurately display the objectives and timers involved in the city battle? Yes. They seemed to update immediately after a PQ stage win.
• Do you feel that your realm had a reasonable chance of successfully attacking or defending the city? Yes. It's easier to keep momentum with the 500 points needed for win rather than 1000.
• Do you feel that these changes will have an overall positive effect on the city siege experience? Very much so.

 

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• Did the Victory Point bar accurately display your progress and function as you would expect?
• Did the reduced timers feel better and still allow for the PQ to be fun?
• Did the UI accurately display the objectives and timers involved in the city battle?
• Do you feel that your realm had a reasonable chance of successfully attacking or defending the city?
• Do you feel that these changes will have an overall positive effect on the city siege experience 

 

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1.  PRO:  I think the bar is a lot more responsive to winning or losing a stage in the PQ.  Since you upped the points for winning or losing, players can now see better how their respective winning or losing a PQ effects the seige.

     CON:  SOR is still better since it gives the actual percentage so you need to add something just like when you place your cursor over the LOTD bar and se how  much resources you need...plz give us the actual percentage.

2.  PRO: Gives a sense of urgency to both sides.....makes every PQ important.

     CON: It took us 6 minutes to run from warcamp in Reikland to breaking down the door.....this is reminding me of the fort seiges with the paper thin doors....doesnt give defenders much time to organize any kind of defense

3. yes

4. PRO Yes I think that even undermanned servers can stop the zerg in stage one if one PQ is successful so that might help people show up and defend..

    CON  I think this change is going to have the opposite effect that you are looking for as now due to the reduced times there will be EVEN MORE city seiges.....which is exactly what we dont want. 

5. I think its positve changes but you need to reduce the timer between PQ's from 5 minutes to 2 mins....there is no reason for a 5 minutes reset....2 minutes is plenty enough to get your gold bag......also PLEASE PEASE PLEASE fix the rebuilding time stage....its should be 5 minutes and the attackers should be kicked out of the PQ IMMEDIATELY after failing.

Will this actually slow the frequency that the city is being attacked?  No

Instead of being in Altdorf 3-4 times a day, with that now increase to 6-7?  Yes

Does this fix the issue of player frustration at constant city seiges for both sides?  No

Would reinstating weakened Forts or City timers increase everyones morale?  Absolutely

• Did the Victory Point bar accurately display your progress and function as you would expect?  For the most part it did, it did seem that the VPs were actually slightly increased for the completion of the stages for the first time bonuses.

• Did the reduced timers feel better and still allow for the PQ to be fun?  The PQ was always fun with people in there and this would allow for other instances to get the flips done faster for them.  And the shorter time does allow for people to not get burned out as long.

• Did the UI accurately display the objectives and timers involved in the city battle?  There were sometimes when the UI would come up and say that a certain side was capturing the BO, then immediately show it was under no realm control, at least the popup message.  But otherwise it was good.

• Do you feel that your realm had a reasonable chance of successfully attacking or defending the city?  For Phoenix Throne it is a reasonable chance for each side to do it but I still feel that there should be an invasion preperation period where the PQs don't start until the City Door goes down.  This way both sides can get an even start on the PQ.  I know you said Defenders need to get an advantage and I agree, but being over half way done with the PQ before anyone can get in is an unfair advantage and with the lower VP required for flipping the stages, its harder for attackers to make up that difference sooner.  My suggestion if you did the invasion preperation period would be when the instances are created for the first time, give the Defenders a 100 or 150 VP headstart so they'd still have the advantage but all the BOs and such are neutral.  Also this invasion preperation period would let people get off alts and onto mains and allow attackers to travel to the zone of the city because most situations you won't always be flipping the zone before the city all the time.

• Do you feel that these changes will have an overall positive effect on the city siege experience? Overall its a nice change because people would get burnt out very easily with the length of the City Sieges, but with the lower VP needed for flipping of the stages and even with the lowered Door HP to the city, I still think the invasion preperation period I stated above would be a good idea and a fair change.

Isn't that what the siege pads are for? /s

But serioiusly, he does make a great point. It's kind of an unfair advantage to the defender, who is able to get a head start on the VPs. Maybe lessen the HPs of the door just a tad and improve the siege weapons?

Andy,

I wasn't able to make it to the play test last night to give feedback, but my main concern with the one hour timer is the time it takes to fly to a zone, run down, form your warband, break down the door etc. I'm sure the PTS had more players yesterday to break down the door faster, but usually it can take a good 5 minutes with a huge zerg not showing up ASAP.

Since each PQ makes a big difference, defenders have an advantage on the first PQ. Currently on live, by the time the attacking realm gets in the instance, defenders will already have the PQ at 400-600 points.

I suggest freezing VP for the first 5-10 minutes so everyone has time to get in an instance, form groups, take down the door etc., so it's a fair start for all as it will be important.

If this issue was addressed already on PTS last night, apologies.

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Andy wrote:

 

• Did the Victory Point bar accurately display your progress and function as you would expect?  Yup, it seemed to.
• Did the reduced timers feel better and still allow for the PQ to be fun?  It was much more fast-paced which made it a lot more fun imo.
• Did the UI accurately display the objectives and timers involved in the city battle?  Didn't really look.  Was too busy killing Destruction...
• Do you feel that your realm had a reasonable chance of successfully attacking or defending the city?  The fast-paced nature made it seem like you could really rally and succeed quickly without requiring a long, drawn-out string of successes.  That being said, you could also be stomped really, really fast before getting organized.
• Do you feel that these changes will have an overall positive effect on the city siege experience  Considering burnout is huge during and after sieges, making it shorter and more exciting should help a lot.

As a reminder, please keep your feedback constructive and on topic.

 

Thanks again for your support. 

Message Edited by Andy on 11-11-2009 11:41 PM

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One thing to note, the Bosses during the second stage of the PQ used to be a viable way to complete the PQ a bit faster than just waiting for the BO ticks, especially during Stage 2 when you may have zero opposition.  By the time you downed them, you'd still be at around 800-900 points anyway though.  Now, with the point values cut in half, if the Bosses haven't had their health also cut in half, they aren't viable at all in any way.

Is it possible we can either see their health adjusted or have them removed entirely due to this?

• Did the Victory Point bar accurately display your progress and function as you would expect?
• Yes i found it very easy to read.
• Did the reduced timers feel better and still allow for the PQ to be fun?
• yes, i liked the faster pace of battle, i had a lot of fun.
• Did the UI accurately display the objectives and timers involved in the city battle?
• yes, you did a good job.
• Do you feel that your realm had a reasonable chance of successfully attacking or defending the city?
• yes, the door coming down faster to match the faster pace while still giving the defender chance s good balance.
• Do you feel that these changes will have an overall positive effect on the city siege experience
• yes, good job guys.

All the changes seemed more or less positive, but I can hardly say I can foresee how the changes will be used on live. The group I ran in with had an enjoyable experience, but I think that was because we had a good group and not necessarily the changes though. I don't think anyone ran into any bugs with the ui so none of that was affected from what I can see. I don't think the pq is funner in any way I just think it is now more apropriatly paced, plus Adell and his minions pathed pretty well for us which was a nice fix. I think the number of vps gained per pq flip seem like it would make it possible to flip or defend. The city has gotten a bit dull, but I think this is a good change. It makes the city feel less dragged out. The amount of time required to go through an entire city siege was just too massive. Too many people can't devote that much time to this game without some kind of forewarning.

These changes may seem good but if you stand back and look at the global effect, then it is a wash.  So instead of being in the city 3 or 4 times a day, now we can be in the city 6 or 8 times a day for shorter periods of time.  The constant farming will increase the disparity between the realms and further degrade the morale of the playerbase.  This is treating the symptom, the main problem is that City access is currently too easy.  That is what need to be fixed.

Temporarily put back the Fortress until another solution can be found and tested.

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• Did the Victory Point bar accurately display your progress and function as you would expect?
  yes.

• Did the reduced timers feel better and still allow for the PQ to be fun?
  yes, and no.. it's still the same ole thing, stage 2 needs higher incentive to do the generals. like double the VP reward IF you kill the general in stage 2.
  
  
• Did the UI accurately display the objectives and timers involved in the city battle?
  yes
  
  
• Do you feel that your realm had a reasonable chance of successfully attacking or defending the city?
  no comment
  
  
• Do you feel that these changes will have an overall positive effect on the city siege experience
  yes, however, having thecity on perma attack on the live severs.. daily.. is not positive city siege experience. bring back forts.

As a reminder, please keep your feedback constructive and on topic.

 

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Spell wrote:

Andy,

 

I wasn't able to make it to the play test last night to give feedback, but my main concern with the one hour timer is the time it takes to fly to a zone, run down, form your warband, break down the door etc. I'm sure the PTS had more players yesterday to break down the door faster, but usually it can take a good 5 minutes with a huge zerg not showing up ASAP.

 

Since each PQ makes a big difference, defenders have an advantage on the first PQ. Currently on live, by the time the attacking realm gets in the instance, defenders will already have the PQ at 400-600 points.

 

I suggest freezing VP for the first 5-10 minutes so everyone has time to get in an instance, form groups, take down the door etc., so it's a fair start for all as it will be important.

 

If this issue was addressed already on PTS last night, apologies.

Message Edited by Spell on 11-12-2009 09:42 AM

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I wouldn't have written it better. That door is the most stupid thing in the entire game (an undefended container of hit points) and by the time we enter the instance enemies usually have about 500-600 points.

Granted, it doesn't always help them since it ends up being 1000-650 in our favor every time. But it's not a fair advantage.

I endorse the VP freeze idea of this poster.