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1.   1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-21-2009 07:00 PM
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I wanted to take some time to let you know what the Community Team is currently conveying as important issues to the Dev Team and what the Dev Team is working on. Please keep in mind, this isn't a complete list, but rather a compiled list of things that we consider "Hot" issues since the launch of 1.3.2.

 

Our goal is to provide players a steady stream of information regarding these concerns in the coming weeks. This information may come in the form of our future/immediate plans for these concerns or informative posts/articles to help educate the community on what was changed and why we did it.

 

  • Tier 4 Campaign: We understand that the frequency of City Invasion is a primary concern for the community. We're accutely aware that the amount of times that cities are being cracked right now is, to put it bluntly, high. This was not an unexpected result of the removal of Fortresses, and there are positives to this, the least of which is exposing more players to WAR's endgame. That being said, we plan on having more details about the much anticipated Underdog System soon. Also, please be assured that we understand that these concerns go hand in hand with population balance concerns in general.

  • State of the City Siege experience: We hear the players concerns about the city siege experience. There's number of concerns about parts of the City Siege ranging from the Stage 1 Lord encounters to players becoming disinterested after the first hour of the City. We're actively investigating solutions to this and want to have more information to you soon.
We've also been looking into player concerns about the City Siege VP, and yes, we did find some issues making the transition from Stage 1 to Stage 2 more difficult than it should be. We should have some fixes for these issues very soon. 
  •  AP Regen: We understand that many players right now are having a difficult time adjusting to the recent changes to AP regen. Over the coming days we plan on giving the community greater insight as to why we made this change and how we feel it will effect gameplay moving forward. For the immediate (coming weeks) future, our plan regarding these changes is to observe, report, analyze and react.

    We are not making any immediate changes nor will we make knee jerk reactions. As has been our approach with all of our recent Combat and Careers changes, we have a set plan of attack and we are sticking to it. So far, player reaction to this change has been mixed, skewing more towards a positive reception than otherwise.

    Again, please watch the forums and the Herald for more information and educational posts regarding this change.

  • Chosen Aura Bug: Watch the Herald tonight for some Hot Fix notes that include the following:

    "Fixed a bug which could occasionally prevent Chosen auras from toggling off."

  • Client crashes and data corruption amongst Trial Client users: We have identified the cause of this issue and it has been addressed on our internal test servers. This means it should be live soon, if it isn't already :smileywink:
 

So these are just some of the issues that we've identified as areas of concern to the Community since 1.3.2 went live. As always, we're reading these forums night and day, spending time playing side by side with our players and overall enjoying all of the amazing performance enhancements introduced in 1.3.2. This patch cycle has been an exciting one and we're equally excited about what the future holds for WAR and all of it's players.

 

We're well on our way to making WAR everything it has the potential to be and we couldn't do it without the support of you, the  players.

 

We'll see you on the battlefield. 

 

Please keep conversation civil and polite. We will be heavily moderating this thread.


 



Andy Belford
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2.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-21-2009 07:45 PM
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I for one am pleased by these changes.  There are a few things that I'm worried about, but overall it's a very positive change in the scope of the game.

My concerns:   Players simply not caring when the city is flipped.  There are already those who quit when the city is flipped, especially because there is very little chance (as of right now) to flip to stage 2.  Afterwards, after 2 straight hours of PQing, a lot of people feel burned out (at least in my experience) from the game.   After a city flip, the game seems to stop for a bit while people take a break.   

 

When the stage progression gets fixed, it might also get to the fact that the city is continually in stage 2, and that defenders don't care, and take the fight to another zone that isn't taken.   Perhaps by implementing an "alarm" system that ends, or reduces the time of the PQ if the 3rd land is taken by the opposing faction. 

 

As the weeks continue before the underdog system gets implemented, there's a greater chance that people /ragequit, especially if they're the underdogs.  Personally, I think that this underdog system needs to get implemented yesterday.  

 

Otherwise, it's a great patch.   


 

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3.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-21-2009 08:37 PM
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Thanks for the post Andy! I'm glad that the most urgent concerns are being looked upon. I'm one of those that's happy with the AP fix but I'm also one of those that will log off as soon as the city siege starts. You should check some of the awesome ideads on the sugestion forums for some insights.
 

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4.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-21-2009 09:21 PM
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Sorry but the AP nerf is ridiculous. 5 plink max on a squig. 4-5 hit with WE max.

 

More AP needed for channeling spell, i agree ! But crippling the primary weapons of classes is stupid. BW and Sorc dont get any problem with this nerf because of their Dots. They still can DPS while waiting for their AP to regen.

 

Again, WP and Dok are the lucky classes, others healers need AP to heal, DoK and WP just switch between AP and soul essence (dont know the name for WP)

 

Cant understand why this nerf happened. Looked like you did  the same thing you did with the AoE, killing the Magus while it was already... well... read the forums :smileytongue:

 

I dont understand why you removed the fort too, ok fights were boring, but city are worst. And what is worst is that we got altdorf or IC 2-3 times a day.

 

Suggestion : Remove every BO ! No more circle jerking winning free RPs. Then, 1 fort and 2 keep each T4 zone. Adjust the guards and NPC then peoples will have 3 zone to roam in and defend. Roamers will be happy to backstab groups trying to take keeps, peoples that love to defend will have enough place to guards, attackers will have more target in the same zone. Oh and... breakable outer walls would be awesome too, gives more chances to the attackers.

 

My account close tomorow, and im seriously not sure about paying again with this AP nerf... Sad tho, its a good game, but patchs look like someone is picking cards with stuff write on it from a stack and apply them :smileysad:

 


 

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5.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-21-2009 09:38 PM
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Finally getting to do some city raids has been great. Accumulating 1000 points twice is somewhat boring and the whole raid is kindof long. I'd shorten the city raid length and lower the points needed per stage. Guarantee of at least 1 purple bag would be nice too.

  

AP change is not very fun but tolerable on my magus due to renown rank AP pool increase. My witch elf is barely playable even after equipping +8 AP regen gear. I'd suggest lowering AP costs if you dont revert these changes and/or allowing regen during GCD.

 

 

 

 

 
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6.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-22-2009 01:47 AM
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the ap isnt a nerf you fools. read your abilites they cost ap.  no ability should be spammaple. it was like that a couple patches aGo. please keep the ap the way it is. no half these scrub casters can spam ooo boohoo.
 
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7.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-22-2009 01:51 AM
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The AP regen will urge people to fight together instead of trying to solo everything.

 

Other than that I love this patch.


 

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8.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-22-2009 01:54 AM
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I'm seeing a lot of stuff basically falling apart at the seams with this patch. I don't remember a prior patch that caused so many 'big' bugs, but maybe I'm just overanalyzing it. I'm not happy with the AP regen fix, but I'll get used to it.

 

Yes, this contradicts an earlier post on another thread, but I've changed my mind. But please Mythic, watch out on some of these changes. It's almost to the point where it's becoming 'gimmicky' to keep what few players you have left aboard.


 

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9.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-22-2009 02:16 AM
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Alright to review what has been said over and over.

 

This is not an AP regeneration nerf, this is how the system was designed and operated until a few months ago.

 

I'm not sure what server your on but my server doesn't farm altdorf 2-3 times a day. Order mainly control the early morning and afternoon hours and desturction get's one good push during prime time and that's it.

 

Some of your suggestions were really strage also....

 

Remove all bo's lol ?

Bring buggy, glitchy fortresses back?

Revert to bugged ap regeneration?

 


 

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10.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-22-2009 03:43 AM
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I do understand that AP was bugged but it seems that AP is far worse then before the bug was even present..

 

Setting AP back to the way it was is fine by me but your guys are just making bomb squads even more powerfull.....  MDPs and healers can fire off like 5 abilities before runing out of AP..  Same thing with every RDPs class EXCEPT Sorc and BW.  In 1.3.0 Mythic nerfed their AoE damage but reduced AP cost to their abilities.. This is unlike every other class during that patch.  Engineer/Magi/SH/SW got AP increases on top of damage NERFS...  I could never understand this, lol... 

 

Now lets talk about burnout and the sorc ability that does the same thing.. For A RIDICULOUSLY small amout of damage a Sorc/BW have a spamable ability that allows them to keep their AP FULL INDEFINITLY...  Insted of spaming RoF/Annihalate they just spam Scorched Earth all day long...  Burnout has no cooldown timer and it gives them crazy amount of AP back....  Andy you do relise that most bomb squads run with a guard and two healers????  That stupid amount of damage they take for burnout is nowhere close to an excuse for them to be able to have full AP while spaming one ability just before your little AP fix...

 

Its ok though...  Sorc/BW player are the highest % of the games population..  As long as you can bullwaffle your way around explaining why you guys are constanly nerfing every other class except them two, Mythic will keep their one button spamming idiots around......................

 

 

 

 
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11.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns   [ Edited ] 10-22-2009 04:17 AM
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Regarding city sieges

 

I find that when im having fun with guildies, queing scenarios/orvr and we push to the city i feel no real desire to play anymore. None of our characters need invader, i make less renown then i would doing scenarios, and i dont feel like beating my head against the wall for 2 hours with no real payoff so i log off or go play on a server that isnt in the city.

 

One suggestion would be to raise the crest drop rates in cities, to give players the incentive to push, for higher RR players to log on, and inspire MUCH more fighting in the cities.

Message Edited by Sym on 10-22-2009 05:49 AM
 
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12.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns   [ Edited ] 10-22-2009 04:48 AM
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It's good that you guys are trying to keep up on the majority of the issues, the big ones anyway.  My main gripe, I guess you could call it that, just like everyone else, is the AP regen.  I definitely understand that this is how the AP system is supposed to work.  But only being able to get off 5 abilities on my tank alt before hitting empty is a bit much.  Granted, this is where the AP pots will definitely come into heavy usage, but a 2 minute cooldown virtually makes them one-shot use during a skirmish.  ALso, it does finally constitute using the AP drain/regain abilities that most classes have.  I'm sure you guys do have further ideas for the AP system and I will definitely make due with what I'm given as this is quite simply, the best MMO out there.  I, along with pretty much everyone else, have seen countless numbers of players in game going ballistic over the AP regen.  I would almost bet at least 10-25% of them either are or have dropped their subscription.  Whatever you guys plan on doing, I hope it involves either doubling the AP pool, or making the AP regen act through GCD's even if that involves lowering the amount that is regenerated per tick.  Anyways, keep up the good work guys.
Message Edited by Balgag on 10-22-2009 04:48 AM
 
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13.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns   [ Edited ] 10-22-2009 05:44 AM
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AP and the state of the city

i like how you have switched the ap regen back to the way it was before, sure a lot of ppl are going to be complaining about it, but that’s due to the fact that it was broken for so long that ppl have become accustomed to being able to spam abilities carefree with out the loss of ap.



Now on to the city sieges.

I agree with sym, I to find my self loging off to another server or just afking around until the city is over, since it been hard to advance past stage 1 for the longest time, even when you had to rely on t3 to get you into stage 2 it was still hard to get to, I have been playing since release on volkmar and have never seen stage 2 for destro. you guys did take a step in the right direction by removing all the vp points except for the objectives points so we no longer have to rely on T3 SC’s to advance. But with that said i would like to see T4 city SC again, having a lvl 40 requirement to join, so you at least have an option rather then being forced into the city to rvr at all.
Message Edited by Sanny on 10-22-2009 05:45 AM
 
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14.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-22-2009 06:54 AM
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I'm fine with the changes to AP, except for that sometimes I regen 17 and other times 15 and then another time 22. If they want it back to normal, can they make it a constant 25?
 

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15.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-22-2009 07:10 AM
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AP Regen

 

Excellent. Even though it has been said that it is what it used to be, it does feel lower for some reason. Anyhow, AP management should be a vital part of playing your toon.

 

City Sieges

 

First, I really like the new format as the siege itself is action packed and fun. However, I don't like how difficult it is to flip to stage 2, nor do I like how it constantly flips back and forth between the initial contested state and the second contested state (with Adell etc), even if you do nothing but win.

 

I also do not like that if a city siege is on, it is all I can do with my Main(s). Maybe make LotD open to both sides with the city is under siege, and create a special 12 v 12 (or less) city scenario for T4 players.

 

The rate it goes into a contested state should change with the "underdog system" I hope. That system has been needed since launch, and will hopefully change the face of RvR for alot more back and forth.

 

I have played since launch and still have never seen stage 2.

 

 

 

Cheers!

 
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16.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns   [ Edited ] 10-22-2009 08:39 AM
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i would love to have special (like 2) 6vs6 szenarios only when city is sieged, that would make it special and many people will look forward to sieges again instead of logging out.

 

What still needs a fix is unbalanced number of people in the city pqs, what is one side suspected to do when its 6 vs 24-48 in a city-pq ?

 

Why not start a pq with even numbers not allowing more people to enter until numbers are unbalanced and then allowing only as many people in to balance it again?

 

Besides the whole pq kinde not reflects a city siege having attackers and defenders, a diferent pq -system then capturing the flag should be implemented.

 

like one side defending some kind of barikades which attackers need to take and hold for xx minutes to win the pq.

and vice versa. (e.g. in Altdorf place the flag on the market place, build some defensive structures and weapon spots, when attackers took the flag, let the defenders attack it and so on). For the respawn rate should be like 30 seconds like in scenarios btw. ... making fights more tactical and death having more consquenzes.

 

 

 

 

Message Edited by Antigonos on 10-22-2009 08:43 AM
 
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17.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-22-2009 08:51 AM
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The new AP model is not balanced!  It's skewed in favor of Sorcs and BWs.  Non WP/DOK healers really get the shaft because of this fix as well.

 

If AP costs on abilities were the same as prior to unlimited AP time period then it wouldn't be such an issue.  But a TON of abilities for a majority of classes had their AP costs INCREASED.  So you "fixed" the AP model but the skillset for most is more expensive.  A proper balance would be to revert the ability costs back as well.  Then things "might" feel and play better.


 

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18.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-22-2009 09:55 AM
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I don't have much time now and may add more in another post later.

 

City stages are boring unless you enjoy farming a PQ. There's a suggestion on the future features forum called "changes to city capture" that would make it a little more like the orvr and sc's we use to reach the city, and this would be a positive thing. Giving us things liek keeps and sc pops I think would help a lot.
 

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19.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-22-2009 10:10 AM
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I like the fact that AP is now more of a resource that must be managed, however:

 

I'm not entirely sure AP regen is working correctly.  People are reporting getting less than 25AP per second  when not in GCD.

 

Personally, I recommend the following:

 

1) Keep the system of 25AP-per-sec when not in GCD.  (But make sure its working correctly)

 

2) Make it so that banners and gear and other +AP regen happens universally -- in other words, if I have +10AP-per-sec from gear, I should get that regen at all times; not just during GCD

 

3) Take a quick pass at AP costs across all classes to ensure they're reasonable.  (e.g. 60AP Plink/EE is not)  Also, have a look at the advantages that classes with mechanics that bypass the AP bottleneck to make sure they're fair (e.g. WP/DoK  and abilities like Burnout and Grudge Unleashed)

 

 

 

 
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20.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns   [ Edited ] 10-22-2009 11:26 AM
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Andy,

 

Thank you for addressing our concerns and letting us know we're being heard. That goes a long way to making a happy customer base.

 

City sieges:

 

The frequency is high, but once players learn how to play the "scenario" it's actually quite fun. But like the classic lemonade stand example from Econ 101 (one glass of lemonade is awesome, but by your 100th glass ...) when it's all that available, the fun is lessened.

 

Once we have a way to slow it down, it would probably be fun again.

 

AP issue:

 

I'm enjoying the challenge of learning to play in a new way, and using tactics and abilities that up until this point, I had regarded as useless or unnecessary. It's harsh right now, and perhaps could use a bit of tweaking, but I think players are learning to adapt.

Message Edited by Arryn on 10-22-2009 11:27 AM
 
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21.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-22-2009 11:41 AM
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AP regen is fine, and I'm currently playing one of the most AP starved classes in the game (WL).  I love having to manage it, and was so tickled when I ran into a choppa and actually got to have a real fight rather than him 1 button spamming limitless attacks.  (He still beat me by the way, cuz my stupid f'n lion was off chewing on a rock or something).

 

However, I think the devs seriously need to look at abilities that allow classes to have virtually limitless AP.  It seems unfair that the two classes that do the most DPS in the game also have the ability to keep their AP full, for very little cost/risk to them. 


 

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22.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-22-2009 12:51 PM
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About cities - add some scenarios (blog post)

 

Bluntly put, there are a large enough group of players that would MUCH rather be doing scenarios during a city siege, and grudgingly go with their guildies to defend or attack. I would suggest that when adding scenarios, that they would only be available OUTSIDE of the city to prevent attackers and defenders from leaving their city instance every time it pops.

 

I understand that T1-T3 get their shot at The Undercroft and War Quarters while the city is being sieged, but it doesn't count for VP anymore. Oh noes! At least they get something new, and that should be enough for them. However, since on any server the majority of players are in T4, and there's more than enough to open a few city instances, why not allow us the same chance at these scenarios and have them count for 15VP or so. That's a little under 20%, but it's a nice even number that's simple to figure into the VP lock. +/- 3 for a win/loss +/- 5 for a 500 point win/loss, cap at 15VP's. So 3 500pt wins in a row would cap either side on their amount of scenario VP's available leaving most of the fighting for the City inside.

 

Another suggestion to make city sieges more desirable and enjoyable would be to unlock the Twisting Tower for IC assaults, and Reikland Factory for Altdorf assaults. This alone would engage many more players that love the variety of scenarios available in Warhammer. Seriously, scenarios are one of your greatest strengths on the market right now. No other game out there has anything that comes close to them, and you players get hooked to them like meth addicts in a dirty hotel room. You do want your customers to become rabid drooling fanboi addicts right? I mean, most of us already are anyway =D

 

Not everyone likes getting lost in the Altdorf Maze, or diving into the IC Meatgrinder Staircase. A lot of us do, but given the instanced nature of City Sieges, there's more than enough that would happily rack up Scenario VP's provided you give them the alternative. I for one quite enjoy the frequent sieges. It's non-stop action for me. It's just the base of players that love their scenarios that are missing out and will quickly tire of the game if 2.5 out of 6 hours of their gaming night is being taken up with content they really don't connect with.

 

Besides, Twisting Tower and Reikland Factory are too cool for one event a year...


 

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23.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-22-2009 01:53 PM
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I greatly enjoy the AP change. Sadly the ulimited AP turned me into a button spammer, but with the new AP system I've gotten back into the mix of using ALL of my abilities to improve AP usage. For me, an Ironbreaker, it really adds a new element of fun to the game. Thumbs up.
 
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24.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns 10-22-2009 03:37 PM
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fix plink/EE ap cost...aka back to what it used to be.

these classes dont have an AP drain and 60ap for a 1 sec spell is steep.


 

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25.   Re: 1.3.2 Player Concerns   [ Edited ] 10-22-2009 03:46 PM
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Do Not put in the VP fix until you have the underdog system figured out. With cities on many servers being one sidedly spammed as they are now, letting the attacking faction (generally the more populated faction) have another advantage without giving the defending side at least some hope (aka, well even if they push stage 2, once they are done in the city we have a better chance of pushing theirs) would make less populated factions quit trying or logging in completely.

 

AP Regen: I have a KotBS and before the changes i will admit I was a button spammer. Now after the changes, well I am still a button spammer, but now I use one of my AP tactics instead the tank/DPS tactic that might have been there previously. Most classes have these tools available to them, they have just had ezmode AP so they forget to look in their tactics/abilities for these handy AP tools. Also, hello again AP potions, welcome back to the land of the living.

 

 P.S. The AP changes make my Warrior priest actually feel like having a seperate RF system is worth something. When other healers had infinite AP, I was stuck with my finite RF pool to dole out heals, now the scales are better balanced.

Message Edited by Matthias on 10-22-2009 12:48 PM
 
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