Returning Big Swing to the previous crippled range will hurt, depending on how the melee CAoE change works. Between the pitiful range and lag, the old ability barely ever hit if the enemy had half a clue and was moving. At the worst, it'll free up the mastery point since Big Brawlin' won't be worth taking anymore. 

Increasing the secondary effects is nice, since the abilities were already on individual cooldowns and limited by the plan mechanic. I hope that includes Not in da face! too. Someone already mentioned that We'z Bigger doesn't stack with self armor buffs or the DoK party buff.

Can't really comment on the global stat contribution change until we see the numbers. 

And if we're looking at AOE this patch, can we get WAAAAAAAGH! fixed?

All I can say is this better not be all....

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Dokthraka wrote:

All I can say is this better not be all....

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I hate to be a negative nancy, but this kind of "half patch" is usually how Mythic rolls.

They'll do an across-the-board nerf to AE, and render all our AE abilities useless in the process.  Then they'll let us languish in a broken state for 6 more months until they remember "oh yeah, we originally extended the radius of melee AE because otherwise it doesn't work with our laggy network code" - then they'll move us back to exactly as we are now and call it a buff. 

Your best bet is to pick two classes that are essentially oposites and just bounce between them.  A Shaman is looking pretty good right now.  And I expect the new fotm shaman will get the nerf bat about the time they get around to making tanks actually playable in PvP. 

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Dokthraka wrote:

All I can say is this better not be all....

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Agreed.  They already drove away most Back Orcs in the last few patches and they do nothing of remote significance to keep the remaining ones around.  I had a post removed earlier for "trolling" because I mentioned that our Morales and War Bellows are useless.  Probably didn't help that I pointed out no Mythic employees ever post in the Black Orc forum.  Although, to their defense one person did post about the Sentinel helm graphic change a while back.  My subscription has been hanging by a thread for quite a while under the assumption that they would fix us in 1.3.  But apprently that's not going to happen so I doubt I'll be around much longer since there is no reason to pay for something that's broken.

Hi AdamG,

Thanks for posting this thread to give us hope as a Black Orc yet. Any change to cc(nerfs in particular) is good news for us. Though I have a few questions to pose to you since I'm sorry, I'm just plain lazy to find the patch notes.

1) "The Bonus damage from Strength will have a much greater effect..."

What doest his actually mean? If I crit it will crit for a higer value, or will my 3rd builder abilities now all get better strength contributions?

2)When you said a few abilities had their durations increased, is it only limited to Saving Me Hide and We'z bigger?

3) Also are you a representative to deal with the Black Orc career? Or You're here to just give general changes?

4) If you are a representative, I would like to ask one last question, I don't think Black Orc players need to have other classes brought down to fit them, though in this patch it is to fix AoE to Healing ratio which is an awesome thing but different altogether, but how Black Orcs would like to be upscaled to other classes. We lack good CC, and most of our abilities have been kinda on the short end. Compared to say an Iron Breaker, or a Sword Master, even a Knight. In either power to utility, survivability, or CC listed in order to the tanks mentioned. Have you had time to read the linked thread AdamG - "Black Orcs unite!"?

Thank you for your time to post this thread. Much appreciated that Mythic has assigned people to post once something comes out. And don't mind those posts of doom or you're not doing your job crap. People tend to lash out when frustrated. I think its just that we love the Black Orc Mythic gave us and hate you guys again for taking it from us. 

Thanks again. Hope to have some kind of reply soon. Thank you.

So what you're saying is that we're being nerfed again? Do you not understand how awful this class is since 1.2?

Here's a newsflash. Our damage in general is terrible. Our AOE damage is worse than terrible. Ok? It doesn't need to be nerfed. If anything it needs to be improved. Here, let me show you what I mean. Here are ALL of our AOE abilities.

Da Big Un - Requires a Two hander. Is conical. Does about 260 delve fully specced...wow. Moves along the ground at a snails pace often resulting in missing targets all together...dude they can out run it! Ok?! The only nice thing is the range...which you're gonna reduce from the sounds of things. NEXT

Big Slash - Oh boy! Full specced it's delve is 187! YES! If you put a tactic in there, it will go up significantly to about 520. Ok...thats more like it. Yes it has a 10 second cool down and sure, requires a tactic slot that we don't have, but look at that damage! Oh...it's a knockback. An AOE knockback.So it will send your target, and everyone elses target out of range. So it's completely useless as a damage skill.

WAAAAAAAGH! - My personal favourite, because it's named after the sound I make every time a patch goes by and it's not fixed. The debuff on this doesn't work. I don't think it's ever worked for that matter. It has a cooldown for now reason, and does the same damage as Da Bigun, which is in the same line, and has no cooldown and some how magically does more damage. This thing will crit for a whopping 600 if you are extremely lucky. But normally it hits for around 150 -250. Certainly worth all the spec points for all those self loathers out there.

Big Swing - Last but not least, we have Big Swing. Now, I won't even talk about this skill without including the tactic because on it's own it's worthless. That said, it's not a bad skill, even though the disorient might as well be removed for all the impact it has. But lets talk about damage because apparently you're going to reduce it. Fully specced, 150 delve.

Look. I know it's early and nothing is written in stone. I also noticed that you are looking to increase stat contribution for high damage attacks... not sure which of our attacks is considered that but any increase is ok with me. But right now, the last thing this class needs is a damage reduction of ANY kind. The damage we do should be going up, not down. OR, and I'd prefer this personally, our survivibility should be going up and you can do whatever you like to the damage.

Ok I'll say it. Fix Da Toughest.

Please.

Nifty. So my already underpowered AoE will be nerfed? SUH-WEEEEET.

Goodbye Boss/WAAAAGH build, hello whatever Mythic pidgeonholes us into next!

Looks like we got nerfed again, besides some of our secondary abilities duration being increased, wooo hooo! No morale changes, no making down ya go usable with a 1h, no fixing waaaagh, nope just more garbage.

Guys guys, come on. I know the frustration. I've been there too. Every time some nub comes up to me and says I should play like a tank, spec like a tank, and do this and do that in RvR/oRvR/Scenarios - I feel like punching him in the face. We all know the defects of this class, and what has become of it. Yet we still strive on as a Black Orc because we are just plain stupid and and ridiculously biased and love our BOs. At least I am that way. If some one feels at all that the BOs are crap, please feel free to go the way of Baba - get a Choppa. I sincerely would like to appeal to the community to keep this thread and "Black Orcs unite" clean and a way to post some kind of class feedback. We know the mods read. We just need some kind of feedback once in a while to know they acknowledge. If the thread's derailed once again by negativity - it won't help us in anyway. Btw that was a nice chart tlaloc.

Just a small question, is running detaunt immunity any useful? In oRvR i find it totally crap. Since I don't really last long enough in the back lines. I go full damage, and respecced my RR in str and 2% crit as well. I find that I can kill alot faster. I just hold back on taunt. They detaunt I taunt back. Also the disorient tactic feels useless. Since i went all out brawling and going to go for Rock 'Ard. 

Keep it to context. Keep posts informative. For example tlaloc's damage/move chart or Stinkeye's though he was a bit frontal haha. Well we are Black Orcs anyways.

Can a mod at least post in Black Orcs unite or has AdamG seen/monitored this thread? Just a "Yes" will suffice... lol...

Thank you.

Well, that's a kick to da green jibblies.

Anyone get the feeling that after they nerf aoe (much needed) that other glaring differences between classes will be made much more noticeable? Since dieing to random untargetted aoe might happen a little less?

Keep in mind our nerfs are relatively low compared to others who relied on AoE (Choppa/BW/engineer), so relatively speaking, we're not that bad off. Did you really rely on AoE anyways?(Maybe warboss, but I don't think the devs care too much about warboss right now)

My question is are there any plans to make Warboss more of a buff specc or to make We'z bigga compatable with Da Greenest? What about making Waaaagh debuff properly? Or are these issues going to be dealt with in the future Black Orc patch? 

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Einherjars wrote:

Did you really rely on AoE anyways?

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 Yes, because I was AoE specced.

I could run into the thick of it and ensure that everyone withing 10 feet had a constant Snare/Disorient/Str Debuff/Resist Debuff (All by 200)/Armor Debuff (1200).

I'm an AoE debuff spec, and it's nice to do even just a little bit of damage with defensive gear, and decent damage with offensive gear.

as long as i wont see a bw run up to my group, disable everybody and then go SCORTCHED EARTH, SCORTCHED EARTH,SCORTCHED EARTH,SCORTCHED EARTH,SCORTCHED EARTH. I'll be happy.

I'd still like to see better defense mechanics in pvp so I can protect other players as a da toughest bo.

like "mor hardcore" sucks.  Is there any way to use this and not trigger the knockback immunity?  or make it knockback and slow the target so we have enough time to use big slash or another ability before he comes back immune to all other knockbacks.  Or put a knockdown in the tank tree with a short knockdown time. As of right now I can defend players more using the brawler tree than the toughest tree just because my big slash and down ya go keeps bad doods off healers better than anything else. 

 A number of AoE abilities have been reduced in effectiveness through reductions in damage, or increase in AP cost/cooldown.  Hope you didn't mean this, our aoe abilities other than big slash did little damage to begin with.

A number of conical-area-of-effect melee abilities have been adjusted to a new standard melee CAoE. Range has been reduced but the arc of effect has been greatly increased. This will allow the character to more easily lash out at nearby targets without granting the career excessive range.    Does anybody know what this means?  Shorter range but I hit more people around me?  Is this going to be closer to the swordmasters knockback?

Good to see the changes to AE.  Sad to see the borc changes or lack there-of.  I was reading the notes last night and telling my guildies the changes.  To my dismay the borc seemed nerfed again.  Even more importantly,  1.2 was a patch filled with a thousand different types of changes.  All of these combined led to 1 huge mess.  I look at the size of the 1.3 patch notes and shake my head.  The only thing I think is here we go again.  There won't be enough testing.  Testing will be ignored and all and all the game will be less fun to play.. again.  Call me a pessimist but I got that sinking feeling.

The bright side I guess is my hitta choppa will be enjoying himself more.  I have to admit though an AE choppa with git to the choppa is a ton of fun.

Where are the great weapon skin changes?  It feels like Kaolinth Caverns for the longest time.

Wug

Well one good thing is

The following area-of-effect abilities have had their radii reduced: Can't Touch Us, Challenge, Da Big Un', Da Biggest!, Deafening Bellow!, Get 'Em!, Hold the Line, No Choppin' Me, Puddle o Muck, Quit Yer Squabblin', WAAAAAAAGH!, Walk it Off!, We'z Bigger, Where You Going?, Yer Nothin.

Taken form patch notes

Big Swing is not on the list, other than that the Black orcs just got "tweak" again...

/bump

I understand how Mythic thinks about us Black Orcs...

We are now more balanced than ever, in other words, we won't ever create anymore tears in the eyes of Order players...

Balanced = Not too bad to not too good...

I could careless about our DPS, but our survivability tree sucks, our AoE tree will suck, and our wannabeMDPS tree will still be 'okay'.  Balanced.

Nerfing Big swing's radius (with big brawlin) will gimp our subpar CC.  It was the only good mass CC we had.  edit : according to the poster above, not affected by the changes, wich is good.

Nerfing WAAAAGH's radius will make it useless to specc for that deep into the boss tree...  it does unsignificant damage, and is arguably broken (I've got no real proof if it debuffs corp resist or not).

Nerfing STR contribution to low base damage skills will just punish BOs the most 'cause almost all of our skills are low base damage...

So, with all these hypothetic nerfs, we have nothing, NOTHING for us.  No buff, nothing to help us doing anyting decent PvP wise.

Anyway, the 'bad guys' side isn't supposed to win the war, the 'good' always triumph...