And I apologize. I really only have one REALLY nagging problem that's bugged me since the big Crafting patch a while back:

I have a character that's a...(oh dear the name for it escapes me at present time) 'horticulturist' and an Apothecary. He can make everything an Apothecary needs, from Stabilizers, Main Ingredients, special chance items, etc. The only thing I really ever have to buy or fight for are containers, and that's understandable enough...I don't think we can go to the local Home Depot and buy a bag of 'tupperware' seeds.

However, as a Talisman maker (on my main), I have a much more difficult time getting what I need. Right now, I'm a Talisman Maker / Magical Salvager. Now, I can do a Blood/Bile, Lost Vale, or Vulture Lord run and get plenty of what I need as far as ingredients. Additionally, I can do PQ's and the like to get the higher-end containers. What I'm really struggling to find are Curios, which are apparently ONLY available to the likes of the Scavenger. 

Did I make a mistake running a TM/MS combination in lieu of Scavenger? Or will the next patch make it so I can actually get something on myself or the marketplace? I'm loaded with fragments...but it's like water in the ocean.

Fragments, Fragments everywhere, but not a Tal to shrink...

I'm curious, looking at this from the aspect of playing 2 classes that deal physical damage, why do large armor pots stack with current linaments but a pot that affects all resists is going to be considered a linament(and have no other affect but resistance buffing)?

Currently one can get 594-742 armor for an hour to go along with their 100 wounds and X offensive stat. This almost allows "light" armored targets to reach 40-50% mitigation with invader gear or above. Medium and above will exceed the 75% cap and allow for some mitigation of armor penetration effects.

Is there a reason that magical mitigation is considered so much more valuable by your balance team? It is the same way with other itemization as well, where armor scales at a faster rate than magical mitigation. It just seems odd, and doesn't really help even a playing a field between classes with access to magical damage versus those without.

Also, dark red dye is one of your better looking colors which actually looks red instead of pink. It is the same color as invader gear. The only method I know of getting this particular color is a lowbie quest in the human/chaos pairing. Would be nice to see this one become a bit more widely available.

"...But you do bring up a really good point, and that's that currently, Apothecaries, no matter what gathering skill they choose to pair it with, are self-sufficient, even if they are excluded from attaining certain main ingredients, while Talisman Makers have a visible handicap no matter what pairing...." 

-  this is RIDICULOUS. Yes they are "self-sufficient" for a 99% of useless skill. Who cares about potions??? Who buys them???? 3 minute cooldown makes them useless in most sc. Potion making is a total waste of time and funds. My potion making DoK is at lvl 125 + but that was time wasted. Ppl, stick with talismans.

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Oaklander wrote:

"...But you do bring up a really good point, and that's that currently, Apothecaries, no matter what gathering skill they choose to pair it with, are self-sufficient, even if they are excluded from attaining certain main ingredients, while Talisman Makers have a visible handicap no matter what pairing...." 

 

-  this is RIDICULOUS. Yes they are "self-sufficient" for a 99% of useless skill. Who cares about potions??? Who buys them???? 3 minute cooldown makes them useless in most sc. Potion making is a total waste of time and funds. My potion making DoK is at lvl 125 + but that was time wasted. Ppl, stick with talismans.

 

 

 

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Oaklander wrote:

"...But you do bring up a really good point, and that's that currently, Apothecaries, no matter what gathering skill they choose to pair it with, are self-sufficient, even if they are excluded from attaining certain main ingredients, while Talisman Makers have a visible handicap no matter what pairing...." 

 

-  this is RIDICULOUS. Yes they are "self-sufficient" for a 99% of useless skill. Who cares about potions??? Who buys them???? 3 minute cooldown makes them useless in most sc. Potion making is a total waste of time and funds. My potion making DoK is at lvl 125 + but that was time wasted. Ppl, stick with talismans.

 

 

 

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Potions are a huge factor for balancing out your weaknesses. Talisman crafters admittedly have a longer range vision as their effects are permanent, but potions give you the edge in a fight where everyone already has talismans. I appreciate your point of view simply for the fact that people who see potions as useless are the ones we, who use them religiously, have the advantage over.

Before this change was announced, Cultivators really had the advantage in Apothecary as they were truly self sufficient without needing to grind mobs for materials. With liniments coming to butchering, we will start to see non-grindy ingredients that a Butcher/Apoth can crank out and there might be a market for all the Goldweed we farm constantly.

Which make me think... PChan, is there going to be a +10stabilizer +1multiplier ingredient for butchering incoming? Or are they going to have something comparable like perhaps a +10stabilizer +5%special? 

I've been a butcher for 1 year now. I know, we can all have a good cry about that one, and I drink down potion like Coca-Cola.

Few Qs for ya.

Inexorable Aegis: What is CR/ER/SR? 

What is damage resist? 

CR/ER/SR is Corporeal/Elemental/Spiritual Resists for sure.

I would like to know what damage resist means too though.

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Arthic wrote:
I'm really trying to figure out a good reason why those dyes will be availabe through Butchering.  This is easily something I can overlook, but it seems a practically useless addition considering the ease to which the masses have access to these dyes already. So where is the incentive to make them?  

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Actually, to be honest with you, probably the best use of most crafted dyes is selling them to vendors. The profit margin on them is pretty astounding. I think it's 2 silver per dye, with a cost of about half a silver? You quadruple your money with each iteration--conservatively you double it, since I can't recall what the exact price and profit is.

You might be over-estimating the value of dyes. Liche Purple is kind of cool, but people aren't going to shell out big bucks for that when they can just get the near-enough-knock-off for cheap. The only dyes that really go for anything are the droppables--Blood Red, Chaos Black, Blazing Orange, etc. But the crafted yellow? Brown? Green? Blue? *shrugs* They're not really in demand and just get vendored anyway.

EDIT: I'm counting down the days before I can have multiples of Warm Sage without having to roll one alt per bottle and run that one Greenskin quest repeatedly... Save me, PChan, you're my only hope =(

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PChan wrote:

 

But you do bring up a really good point, and that's that currently, Apothecaries, no matter what gathering skill they choose to pair it with, are self-sufficient, even if they are excluded from attaining certain main ingredients, while Talisman Makers have a visible handicap no matter what pairing.

 

Without promising anything (since I don't have the ultimate word), this next round of introspection for each crafting skill will likely see less large scale changes and more balancing issues, like the *number* of containers that come from PQ sources, the feel of different crafting combinations, etc., but I will look into a way to finding better parity between tradeskills and re-examine self-sufficiency for talisman makers.

Message Edited by PChan on 09-19-2009 04:47 PM

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This actually brings up my first question:  Will we ever be able to multi-gathering-skill train?  This would not only eliminate the problems that you brought up, but would also be able to open up a large new path in customization options that could be worked on in the future.  Right now, we have the immediate effect:  Crafters are self-sufficient.  Later on down the line you could also possibly toy with the idea of crossing gathering skills to make new and interesting changes and additions to the crafting skills we have currently at our disposal. 

Let's face it.  I'm not trying to sound mean, or unthankful (because being a butcher I really REALLY am thankful for the updates), there's still so little to do in the crafting field.  There are a lot of people who just don't care about it anymore, since they can gather and get whatever they need from guildies, or the Auction House, or other sources.  Having more than one gathering skill, along with a possibility of expanding on said gathering skills, could pose a new and interesting dynamic for those who are interested in what the benefits could be. 

For instance:  What kind of benefits would the bones (or organs) of certain beasts bring to the talisman skill?  Would the bones of a bear bring added strength, or would the wings of a bat bring additional running and kiting capabilities to the talismans that they were trying to create?  On the opposite end of the spectrum, what benefits would the blood of elves or dwarves or greenskins have to the effects of potions?  Or working within the scavenging aspect... what would holy water do for a strength potion?  See what I mean?  What would happen if one used a magical essence in a potion?  I personally think that having multiple gathering skills could have fun new effects of the ever-changing WAR.

Ok, on to my second (more easily answerable) question:

Will the special ingredients through butchering be available in the general pool of animals to butcher, or are they going to be saved for Dungeon (Bloodwrought, Lost Vale) runs? 

Edited for Clarity

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CrisaliS wrote:

I've got a question about crafting skill leveling. Can you make it less random? <_<

Bad luck on one of my chars starting to piss me off :/. I've ranked out of T1 long ago, but I still farm crafting stuff there. I made about 6-7 green/blue/purple talies using lvl25 ingredients to get from 36 to 37 . While on another char I could easily get from 40 to 50 using lvl25 white fragments with lvl1 gold and curio.

       

e.g. you could add an XP bar and make it so every successful try adds some XP. Better ingredients give better XP and vice versa <_<.

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This might not be what you're looking for, but have you tried to farm for 50 level components and drank a "talisman creation +25" potion? 

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Oaklander wrote:

"...But you do bring up a really good point, and that's that currently, Apothecaries, no matter what gathering skill they choose to pair it with, are self-sufficient, even if they are excluded from attaining certain main ingredients, while Talisman Makers have a visible handicap no matter what pairing...." 

 

-  this is RIDICULOUS. Yes they are "self-sufficient" for a 99% of useless skill. Who cares about potions??? Who buys them???? 3 minute cooldown makes them useless in most sc. Potion making is a total waste of time and funds. My potion making DoK is at lvl 125 + but that was time wasted. Ppl, stick with talismans.

 

 

 

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I use potions all the time and they save my butt on many an occasion.

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PChan wrote:

You are correct, curios only come from scavenging. The "mirror" to that paradigm is that magic essences only come from salvagers. Theoretically speaking, both max level curio and max level magic essences are required to make the highest levels of talismans- so just as you find yourself needing curios, Scav/TMs should be needing magic essences. If magic essences are not coming from salvage, that's something I will have to look into immediately.

 

But you do bring up a really good point, and that's that currently, Apothecaries, no matter what gathering skill they choose to pair it with, are self-sufficient, even if they are excluded from attaining certain main ingredients, while Talisman Makers have a visible handicap no matter what pairing.

 

Without promising anything (since I don't have the ultimate word), this next round of introspection for each crafting skill will likely see less large scale changes and more balancing issues, like the *number* of containers that come from PQ sources, the feel of different crafting combinations, etc., but I will look into a way to finding better parity between tradeskills and re-examine self-sufficiency for talisman makers.

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Yea and the handicap is definitely the magic essence.  you get the gold essence from both scavenging and salvaging.  You can scavenge the curios and at least buy up to the midrange curios. But only one way to really get magic ess. 

Perhaps a chance to get magical essence from butchering.. from appropriate mobs.   It would still be less self sufficient but at least would give more availability of the ingredients and at the same time make a almost worthless craft ( butchering ) more useful.

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Is there a reason that magical mitigation is considered so much more valuable by your balance team? It is the same way with other itemization as well, where armor scales at a faster rate than magical mitigation. It just seems odd, and doesn't really help even a playing a field between classes with access to magical damage versus those without.

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Unfortunately, this question does not fall under my authority to answer.

 

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Which make me think... PChan, is there going to be a +10stabilizer +1multiplier ingredient for butchering incoming? Or are they going to have something comparable like perhaps a +10stabilizer +5%special?

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The multiplying property was an exception initiative to give goldweed an advantage over resins- I will admit that I had not considered this for Butchering. I'll look into whether or not this is a possibility.

 

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Inexorable Aegis: What is CR/ER/SR?

What is damage resist?

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Corporeal Resist/Elemental Resist/Spirit Resist

I have no idea why I wrote damage resist when I meant Reduced Incoming Critical Damage.

 

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EDIT: I'm counting down the days before I can have multiples of Warm Sage without having to roll one alt per bottle and run that one Greenskin quest repeatedly... Save me, PChan, you're my only hope =(

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CT Forums, Go. 

 

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I've got a question about crafting skill leveling. Can you make it less random? <_<

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At this time, I have no plans to change the leveling mechanic, sorry.

 

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Will we ever be able to multi-gathering-skill train? ...[massive text block]

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It's possible that you may see multi-gathering-skill training in the future. IF it were implemented, it would likely come as a component of a larger overall change, but that's not something I can promise at the current time.

 

 

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Perhaps a chance to get magical essence from butchering.. from appropriate mobs.   It would still be less self sufficient but at least would give more availability of the ingredients and at the same time make a almost worthless craft ( butchering ) more useful.

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There are currently no plans to allow cross-pollination of non-allied trade skills.

I was never sold on the idea of butchering but with the 1.3.2 additions I wanted to give it a shot. So I have been butchering and it is enjoyable, like scavenging, every butchering attempt I hope for something good. Plus it is fun to get to know what mobs drop what types of components.

One of the main reasons if not the only reason I never picked up butchering is because in T4 I mostly commit all my time to RvR (ie ORvR and Scenarios). The other gathering skills don't seem to be a problem. I can cultivate seeds while riding to objectives. I can scavenge players and npcs of bfos and keeps. I can salvage greens and blues or set pieces from players or from npcs that I win in loot roles. What do butchers do? Sure there are white lions and squigs from players and maybe the occasional random mob in the zone but compared to the other gathering professions, most of the butchers supply comes from the pve side of things it seems.

Where do the endgame butchers get most of their supply from? Could there be more mob presence in the RvR lakes?

Some ideas that come to mind: Warhawks on keeps. Vultures around a display of corpses. The roving patrol on an upgraded keep not only could be four champions but maybe 2 champion NPCs with 2 champion mobs. Empire could have hounds with their npcs. High Elf would have lions of course. Chaos would have chaos hounds or other butcherable daemons. Either side could have almost any familiar, such as a bear, just throw some harness graphic on them to appear as they are domesticated. So on and so on.

I could really enjoy Butchering for endgame but if I have to leave my warband to go farm some more materials from PVE areas I might as well stick to cultivating.

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PChan wrote:

At this time, I have no plans to change the leveling mechanic, sorry.

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Hi Phillip,

I have a question about the leveling mechanic itself, if you don't mind.

Let's say for example that my Talisman making skill is 45, and I am making some talismans with level 25 fragments.

Each time I attempt to make the tali, is the chance that I will level up to 46 on that attempt the same, or does some factor affect the probability?  For example, let's say (totally hypothetically as I obviously don't know the real numbers) that there is a 10% chance to level from 45 to 46 by making a level 25 talisman.  On your first attempt, you do not level, so the second attempt, would the percentage chance to level still be 10%?

I understand you said there are no plans to change the leveling mechanic, but I think that it would be cool if each time you make a talisman and it does NOT level you up a tick, it ought to add a small extra percentage chance to level up on the next creation attempt.

So for example, let's say (as before) that there is a 10% chance to level from 45 to 46 by making a level 25 talisman.  On your first attempt, you do not level, so the second attempt, you get a 5% bonus to make it a 15% chance.  Don't level up that time, next time you get and additional 5% (for a 10% total bonus) to make it a 20% chance, and so on.

I've burned a lot of very hard to find "x25" fragments (seems that the even multiples of 50 are most common) trying to level up from 25 to 50 or 75 to 100, etc.

Thanks for your attention.

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 solidzaku wrote:

 

 I just had a bad feeling that you're going to do to HV/AP what's going on right now to TM/MS in the name of 'crafting balancing'.

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 In many ways, I wish that Talisman Making and Apothecary were a little more universal where such changes that could be considered "crafting balancing" would be more practical. However, given the wide disparity in characteristics between the two, I would not indulge in such "bad feelings". If there are nerfs to be made, they would likely be made to gain balance between allied gathering skills.

 

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Kargubin wrote:

Where do the endgame butchers get most of their supply from?

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The multiple butcher addition is made to lessen the pain of RvR Butchers by allowing them to gain extra harvests from pets slain in player combat. Due to the very specific nature of Butchering (in that players must find and harvest certain types of monsters for certain ingredients), it would be impossible for me to totally eliminate the PvE harvesting element. As time goes on, however, I may adjust the allowable harvest number on pets and monsters in RvR areas to strive for that impossible RvR harvesting parity with Scavenging.

 

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ChaosDescending wrote:

On your first attempt, you do not level, so the second attempt, would the percentage chance to level still be 10%?
I think that it would be cool if each time you make a talisman and it does NOT level you up a tick, it ought to add a small extra percentage chance to level up on the next creation attempt.

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The skill leveling system is not cumulative, so the answer would be yes, the chance to level would still be 10%. 

 

Though I agree that a dynamic system like that would indeed be cool, it is not realistic at the current time to design and implement due to the immense engineering resource cost of ripping out the backbone of that system- engineering resources that could be used elsewhere.

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ChaosDescending wrote:
Phillip, thanks for the reply!

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Phillip are there any plans for implementing more trade skills? Or is the Professions team focused moreso on balance?

I'm actually moreso curious because I made a post in the suggestion forum (http://forums.warhammeronline.com/warhammer/board/message?board.id=pts_ff&thread.id=48036)  about a Siege Engineering profession, and it seems to be getting some good feedback, and I'm curious what the Tradeskill team thinks.

Is my breath just wasted? Or do you guys look at this stuff?

Question:

Currently Armor Pots don't stack with other abilities that grant armor (Tuff n' Nails, Covenat of Tenacity).

Will these new CR/ER/SR potions stack with abilities that grant universal resistances (Discortant Instability, Morks Buffer, Mark of the Vortex)?

I'm fairly sure that they won't, but I'd like clarification, as that could lead to some balance issues for spell casters.

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Grukbash wrote:

Question:

 

Currently Armor Pots don't stack with other abilities that grant armor (Tuff n' Nails, Covenat of Tenacity).

 

Will these new CR/ER/SR potions stack with abilities that grant universal resistances (Discortant Instability, Morks Buffer, Mark of the Vortex)?

 

I'm fairly sure that they won't, but I'd like clarification, as that could lead to some balance issues for spell casters.

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The Liniment of Inexorable Aegis will not stack with class abilities that increase resistances, as you suspected.

Also, due in no small part to the urgings of our Core Testers and the crafting community, we will be replacing our previous (and apparently uninspired) selection of Butchering dyes to a selection of slightly more exotic colors. Most of them start with "dark", but to keep it fun, I won't announce them just yet.