Just to point out a mistake you made.  Archmages do not have the Path of Khaine as a mastery path.  It's Path of Asuryan.

Also, no mention was made on what happened to the skill Feel the Winds from the Asuryan mastery tree.  Has it been completely removed, folded into another skill, or added to the base skills of an Archmage?

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Krucifix wrote:
Auryan may or may not have been renamed to Khaine, in light of it's changes.

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Unlikely, given that Khaine is a Dark Elf god.

Pretty sure they said we were losing Feel The Winds in order to make room for Energy of Vaul (AoE Lifetap).

A couple of things I'd say:

1) I'd definitely like to see the new mechanic during this patch, our tactics will obviously need to be updated this patch anyhow (as you mentioned) since in their old positions they don't make much sense, like how Vaul has a tactic (Expanded Control) which effects abilities that are (based on the previous roadmap) now in Isha & Asuryan, same goes for Golden Aura.  The tactics which effect our mechanic will also probably need updated... I'd rather not go Live for a period of time with my tactics all over the place.  I'd rather go live with most of the changes in tact and expect some tweaks in 1.3.1.

2) You said that Asuryan is Damage and abilities which increase damage taken, while Vaul is Lifetaps and self defense.  Based on the roadmap, Storm of Cronos is part of the Vaul Mastery... wouldn't that be considered more an offensive spell that increases damage done (Spirit resist debuff) while Dissipating Energies (deals damage to enemies near target), which, by the roadmap, is at the top of Asuryan,  would be more along the line of defensive (get close to me and it's gonna hurt).

I realize that, in all likelyhood there are  several specific tweaks and such that wouldn't be detailed in this preview, it's just a few things that stand out to me.

3) Has the extreme fragility of Group Heals been removed along with the reduction of range?  These abilities randomly became extremely fragile during beta and have been that way since, but I haven't seen any comment on this extra feature, it's not even in the tooltip of the ability.  While the Big Heals, which actually do have a tooltip indicating fragility, are actually LESS fragile than the group heal.

Actually lore wise Khaine is also a High Elf God.  Just one not as exclusively worshipped. 

The Swordmaster has a path named under Khaine already.  So I doubt that they would rename the Asuryan line into Khaine for Archmages.

It's a bit of a pity that we're losing Feel the Winds.  But then again we 'are' getting Law of Age it seems as a base skill which would make up for it to some extent.

I don't understand the thinking behind making Dissipating Energies as a Asuryan x13 skill however, but maybe they are redoing the spell completely from it's current 60 second cooldown, 10 second duration, group mate only, targetted AE damage pulse.

Actually Khaine is an elven god worshiped by both high and dark elves.  The high elves worship him as the god of war, but don't speak about him much.  The dark elves worship him as the god of murder and sometimes rabbidly like the cult of Khaine.

Everything about the dark elves originated with high elves, but it's been twisted to be extremely evil.

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BkWiz wrote:

Actually lore wise Khaine is also a High Elf God.  Just one not as exclusively worshipped. 

 

The Swordmaster has a path named under Khaine already.  So I doubt that they would rename the Asuryan line into Khaine for Archmages.

 

It's a bit of a pity that we're losing Feel the Winds.  But then again we 'are' getting Law of Age it seems as a base skill which would make up for it to some extent.

 

I don't understand the thinking behind making Dissipating Energies as a Asuryan x13 skill however, but maybe they are redoing the spell completely from it's current 60 second cooldown, 10 second duration, group mate only, targetted AE damage pulse.

Message Edited by BkWiz on 05-14-2009 05:50 PM

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The Swordmaster also has a Vaul tree...

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Stickemup wrote:

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BkWiz wrote:

Actually lore wise Khaine is also a High Elf God.  Just one not as exclusively worshipped. 

 

The Swordmaster has a path named under Khaine already.  So I doubt that they would rename the Asuryan line into Khaine for Archmages.

 

It's a bit of a pity that we're losing Feel the Winds.  But then again we 'are' getting Law of Age it seems as a base skill which would make up for it to some extent.

 

I don't understand the thinking behind making Dissipating Energies as a Asuryan x13 skill however, but maybe they are redoing the spell completely from it's current 60 second cooldown, 10 second duration, group mate only, targetted AE damage pulse.

Message Edited by BkWiz on 05-14-2009 05:50 PM

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The Swordmaster also has a Vaul tree...

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Funny thing is I just looked up the swordmaster mastery paths and missed that.  Still, I don't see any reason why they would suddenly change the name to Khaine.  Then again it's really only a cosmetic change for the most part so w/e.

Sounds awesome, but like Dastion mentioned, it would be really really nice to have the tactics re-organised and where needed redone to work with the new mastery trees.  Fingers are crossed the proposed mechanic makes it in as well.

=^_^=b

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Aiiane wrote:

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Krucifix wrote:
Auryan may or may not have been renamed to Khaine, in light of it's changes.

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Unlikely, given that Khaine is a Dark Elf god.

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Have you played a SM?

(PS I LOVE YOUR ADDONS. ) 

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AdamG wrote:

Greetings,

 

Archmages will see the re-shuffled Mastery Paths in 1.3, as well as a few new abilities and revamped Tactics.

• The new ability "Energy of Vaul" has been added to the Path of Vaul. This ability will drain life from an area around target and restore it to the caster.

 

 

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I thought it would restore it to our defensive target (at least that's what the Archmage and Shaman Career Roadmap says). Is that correct? Will it only restore it to the caster?

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Krucifix wrote:

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Aiiane wrote:

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Krucifix wrote:
Auryan may or may not have been renamed to Khaine, in light of it's changes.

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Unlikely, given that Khaine is a Dark Elf god.

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Have you played a SM?

 

(PS I LOVE YOUR ADDONS. ) 

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Yeah, ironically I have a level25 SM alt, mostly just mentally blanked on that one.

For T4, what level of Willpower is considered "average"?  At what point will 1.3's Willpower contribution equal 1.2's?

This just gets worse and worse for anyone who doesn't want to play pure healer or pure dps.  Anyone going Vaul or Khaine (or Asuryan, whatever you want to call it) has to stack Intelligence to have any sort of reasonable dps.  That leaves little room for Willpower, meaning that Vaul will have to heal primarily through the lifetaps, which requires you to be closer range and have an actual target...  In keep/fortress situations, which this game is largely balanced around, I'm just not seeing how a Vaul AM will be able to heal effectively.  Meanwhile Khaine gets ANOTHER nerf to healing in addition to the planned mechanic changes.

I'm really disappointed that this class is being turned from versatile to locked into either healbot or dps.  If I wanted to be a ranged dps caster, I'd play a Bright Wizard.

Not only that, but Mythic is basically making anyone specced as a dps archmage a virtual pariah.  People expect healing classes to be able to heal.  If we can't heal, or can't heal without sacrificing the use of every other ability, unless you have a regular (and understanding) group to run with you will be reviled in public groups.  As a former melee-specced "battle bard" in daoc, I am well aware how much disdain people have for support classes who are unable to function as expected.  Between this and the loss of feel the winds, I am wondering if my dps is going up in any meaningful way, and my healing will be useless now, even with 8 points in Isha.  Going to try to get on test and see how it goes before I make a final judgement, my instincts are screaming that this is going to make my character ungroupable unless I go full Isha and healbot.

Ningauble Aelfhaelend

40/64 Archmage, Phoenix Throne

Very interesting point Bjora... An AM seems to be extremely pigeonholed now, no mixing, it's one or the other (forget this "no heal bot" addage once and for all).

I'm guessing the change to DoK/WP is amplifying that too, they've effectively made the DoK/WP a back line healer (made their group heal identical to AM/RP, 2.5s cast).

Hmm, interesting changes either way, we'll see how it all pans out. 

You can't help what people think of you or their perceptions.  They would also be wrong if they said an AM should only heal or you should re-roll as a DPS class.  What does it matter if I am on a AM or BW?  Either way I'm DPSing (in this example).  I've been getting my feet wet with the previous patches changes to our damage and have been pleasantly surprised overall. The mastery line changes coupled with the mechanic overhual are goign to be great. I really really hope the mechanic change makes it into 1.3. 

=^_^=b

If you dont like healbotting the worst part of this patch would be the WP groupheal nerf.  WP were actually doing most of the healbotting on my server, but now guess whos going to be expected to pick up the slack?

Whether or not the willpower thing is good or bad depends entirely on what they choose as average:

600 good

700 less good

800+ forget it

I for one am very nervous about all of these changes.  Good healing and survivability tend to promote longer fights which I enjoy on any class that I play.  One of my main concerns with the archmage has already been mentioned and I would like to again point out that:

3) Has the extreme fragility of Group Heals been removed along with the reduction of range?  These abilities randomly became extremely fragile during beta and have been that way since, but I haven't seen any comment on this extra feature, it's not even in the tooltip of the ability.  While the Big Heals, which actually do have a tooltip indicating fragility, are actually LESS fragile than the group heal.

The way things are right now, my group heal is pretty much useless if im taking any sort of damge whatsoever.

I like the proposed changes as they match my play style.  I've been pew pewing a lot lately and can't imagine doing even more damage than I am now, but I will gladly take it.

I encourage everyone to get the test client and test test test test test test like you woke up next to a stripper.  This is the only way we will know if this is good.

Very Excited to see the changes on the Archmage, had a chance to play with vaul life tap and it looks pretty sweet, 2s cast no cooldown decent damage and heals defensive target.

I would like to second the call for tactic revamps as many of the tactics in the vaul tree make no sense now, 11point golden aura enhancing a skill in asuryan? That doesn't sound right.

I noticed that there were issues on my AM with not all abilites available (balanced essence doesn't appear anywhere?Law of age?)

I would be ecstatic to see the Mechanic revamp come to 1.3 and be able to test it out so we can get it working earlier.  My initial playing this morning has reinforced that the new mechanic will be even more necessary after the mastery revamping.  The new trees just don't feel like they are comfortable in the current mechanic and I suspect the new mechanic will fit like a glove.

I agree with the changes to paths and abilities, it was much needed and I hope it doesn't stop here. Every major patch should address skills that are not feeling well.

 Although, I'm concerned about the mechanic change. Right now, I absolutely believe that our autocast ability granted while we have 5 points into Force/High Magic is a must. It's a tool, if I'm in oRVR I can't cast 5 damage spells to grant me an instant res to a friend that is in a bad spot where I couldn't stand 3 seconds in peace to res him. I don't want to spec a tactic for that (and stay glued to the ground to be spanked to death).

Also, the roadmap proposed mechanic change implies that Isha specced archmages will have little use for the damage spells, we can't defend ourselves in 1x1 situations because our damage will be low anyway (healers have low int) and ruining our healing boost for little damage will surely grants us death. Not saying that I want to win 1x1, what I mean is that in big combats sometimes people don't notice the healer is being beat up, we will absolutely be unable to even fight back because of mechanic limitations.

Maybe reduce the High Magic/Force pools to 3 points and add a small bonus to effectiveness for those spells while we are aiming for the 3 point, when it reaches 3 points, the spells that can burn out that  energy will be granted an instant cast (together with a slight increased bonu). No need to have reduced cast time during the way to the 3 point condition, just a bonus to the spells that we keep casting unless the opposing one wastes the insta cast.

Example:

cast of Boon of Isha builds Force 1 

cast of Healing Boon builds Force 2  (with increased healing effectiveness of 5% from Force 1)

cast of Healing Boon builds Force 3  (with increased healing effectiveness of 10% from Force 2)

cast of Boon of Isha (with increased healing effectiveness of 15% from Force 3)

cast of Radiant Gaze (no bonus or autocast cause it's already an auto-cast spell)

cast of Lambent Aura (with increased healing effectiveness of 15% from Force 3)

autocast of Radiant Lance consumes the 3 point Force bonus

cast of Searing Touch builds High Magic 1

cast of Radiant Lance builds High Magic 2 (with increased damage of 5% from High Magic 1)

cast of Radiant Gaze builds High Magic 3 (with increased damage of 10% from High Magic 2)

cast of Searing Touch (with increased damage bonus of 15% from High Magic 3)

cast of Lambent Aura (no bonus or autocast cause it's already an auto-cast spell)

cast of Radiant Lance (with increased damage bonus of 15% from High Magic 3)

autocast of Boon of Isha consumes the 3 point High Magic bonus

I'm not differentiating Vaul from Isha/Asuryan for the sake of simplicity, but if needed it could be added another energy building possibility like a triangle instead of considering Vaul a damage spec

Plus, since we only decrease a bonus, not decrease the effectiveness for weaving spells from different categories, we could find ways to be able to play like hybrids eventually.

If I'm DPSing I will build a bit more damage while I don't need my healing/res abilities, whenever I use some healing which is auto-cast by nature, the ability won't burn the High Magic but it won't have any bonus since I build High Magic which won't help it. If I want a Boon of Isha though, to save me from death, it will waste the High Magic because it was auto-cast. I'm waste the bonus I build up because I took the advantage of auto-casting, not a punishment, a trade.

If I'm healing, I can still use some DOTs to help my teammates when they don't need healing, and If I need to help DPS down someone I can waste my builded Force to auto-cast a stronger spell. 

Some people might want to stay with they 15% bonus by not ever wasting the builded energy for an instant cast of a powerful spell, but the game should not focus on reducing the overall effectiveness of spells by 15% to making us be constantly at max builded energies. If somehow 15% sounds too much it could be lowered, it's only a bonus for the gimped AMs, we won't be overpowered by some number around it.

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Bjora wrote:

For T4, what level of Willpower is considered "average"?  At what point will 1.3's Willpower contribution equal 1.2's?

 

This just gets worse and worse for anyone who doesn't want to play pure healer or pure dps.  Anyone going Vaul or Khaine (or Asuryan, whatever you want to call it) has to stack Intelligence to have any sort of reasonable dps.  That leaves little room for Willpower, meaning that Vaul will have to heal primarily through the lifetaps, which requires you to be closer range and have an actual target...  In keep/fortress situations, which this game is largely balanced around, I'm just not seeing how a Vaul AM will be able to heal effectively.  Meanwhile Khaine gets ANOTHER nerf to healing in addition to the planned mechanic changes.

 

I'm really disappointed that this class is being turned from versatile to locked into either healbot or dps.  If I wanted to be a ranged dps caster, I'd play a Bright Wizard.

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I don't quite see the point with the arguement, but I've seen it come up allot.  This is the issue with any "hybrid" class, in any game(and there isn't supposed to be a pure healing class in WAR so all would be considered hybrids, anyway.)  You sacrifice your effectiveness of one for the other.  You are either good(but not the best) at one or you are stuck in the middle with both.  I'd love to melt faces while being able to keep myself and group alive in the process but I can see how that might just be a little overpowered.  You may not do as much damage as a bright wizard but I am sure any BW would love to have your mediocre heals.  So for that I will settle for being less effective but more versatile.

 

I agree with what other's pointed out though that yes, people expect an AM to heal when they see one in the war band because you are a healer archtype.  Regardless of what spec you are, you're still only one of three classes that is capable of doing it.  And I think that is more at fault with the over abundance of DPS already and lack of healers. If your group already has as sufficent amount of healers then sure I don't see any reason why they would complain about an AM dpsing.  Of couse, I will keep in mind some players lack reason and wish to complain regardless.  But if finding a group that doesn't need a healer is that hard for you, then you can always go with the typical hybrid's curse of carrying extra gear and respecing often to fill the needed healer role.