gp ISNT  op-

check this morale 3

now thats OP.....

phear my magus! 

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Doomrot wrote:

First of all Marauders recieved a buff to their dps in two areas.  One is a proc that allows us to put a DoT that does 850 damage over 5 seconds, which is just physical damage and unaffected by stats. The other is an increase to off-hand damage by 25%, and raises the off-hand swing chance to 100% for five seconds.  Hardly a game shattering increase.  We still are the worst dps class in the game.

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You forgot the main hand mirroring that (i assume) added a pretty decent chunk of damage.

You should probably talk to the marauder on my server that was spamming 1400 impales(with the 10% buff from the holiday, so really 1250 impales) and the 1900 guillotine i got hit with, while his autoattacks did 800ish crits on me.  On top of that he was using various AP drains and an aoe knockdown to more or less make his target useless in a fight.  I hear having 0 AP is about as bad as being stunned or dead.

not to mention, 100% immunity to armor penetration is insane, you would think thats a tank ability.  You also forgot that the dot proc nerfs autoattack speed of the target by 50%, which is pretty good against tanks with 3s+ swing speeds.

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Cindria wrote:

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Doomrot wrote:

First of all Marauders recieved a buff to their dps in two areas.  One is a proc that allows us to put a DoT that does 850 damage over 5 seconds, which is just physical damage and unaffected by stats. The other is an increase to off-hand damage by 25%, and raises the off-hand swing chance to 100% for five seconds.  Hardly a game shattering increase.  We still are the worst dps class in the game.

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You forgot the main hand mirroring that (i assume) added a pretty decent chunk of damage.

 

You should probably talk to the marauder on my server that was spamming 1400 impales(with the 10% buff from the holiday, so really 1250 impales) and the 1900 guillotine i got hit with, while his autoattacks did 800ish crits on me.  On top of that he was using various AP drains and an aoe knockdown to more or less make his target useless in a fight.  I hear having 0 AP is about as bad as being stunned or dead.

 

not to mention, 100% immunity to armor penetration is insane, you would think thats a tank ability.  You also forgot that the dot proc nerfs autoattack speed of the target by 50%, which is pretty good against tanks with 3s+ swing speeds.

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Unless the Marauder has good gear then no, the off hand mirror was a decrease to our dps.

The Marauder I'd talk to would be RR60+ with a high crit rate, running Deeply Impaled, and Piercing Bite with high strength.  So they were bypassing 50% of your armor, debuffing you and making you 10% more likely to be crit, and was behind you the entire time.  In case you didn't know Impale is a positional attack.  His auto attacks were hitting you for that much because of the Brutality proc and the fact that you wear paper mache for armor.  The cone KD is for ~1 second with out lag and is now is a 10 point ability in the Monstro talent tree.  He must have been pretty high RR because what you fought was a Brutality Marauder with at least 11 points in Monstrosity, an 8 point tactic in Savagery and a large amount in Brutality to be hitting you that hard with Impale.  Sorry to say but, Brutality Marauders of high RR have been hitting people foolish enough to let them "spam" Impale on them that hard for a while now.

The Monstro proc and the secondary effect of the Savagery proc do not increase our DPS which is why I left them out.

Gromil Plating is the single most broken thing in the game atm.

It should be cut in half to near the zealot or given to the BG. 

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Illuminati wrote:

Gromil Plating is the single most broken thing in the game atm.

 

It should be cut in half to near the zealot or given to the BG. 

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Your class is the most broken thing in a game. You should be nerfed or Kobs get a boost to your level. We can swap R3 and tactics with BGs right after this.

This thread is pretty funny since everyone just says "chosen are OP" but are unable to provide a detailed explanation about it.

This thread is about Gromril's Plating, a core M3 ability that is from the outer space. Stop dogwaffleing about chosen here please.

so Lets see, I have an almost RR60 knight and I can tell you right now they're not worse off then Chosen, But i can also tell you Gromil Plating is overpowered because unlike you billy boy, i've played both sides.

Its Overpowered and needs a nerf, or you should give it to a Destruction Toon, and then you'd see overpowered.

Nothing more silly then watching people argue when they have an overpowered ability.

First it was 1001 Blessings, I pointed out thats how thats not even remotely close, then it degraded to Chosen, Pointed out its abilities are available on a Swordmaster, and now he's run out fo things tto talk about..

How about this, even without Gromil Plating, the ironbreaker is still the most overpowered toon in the game, far more then the Chosen is..

Agreed with the above (bloke with the Knight avatar). 

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Tincan wrote:
I can recommend the same to you, quit whining about R3 Morale while playing OP classes.

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Seriously...if that were directed at Neptun that's pretty hilarious, given that he's a Marauder. 

They've been improved somewhat with the latest patch but by no means OP...more like brought up to where they should have been in the first place.  But that's not really the point here either.  

Can you actually make an argument on how this m3 Gromril Plating isn't OP, and not resort to irrelevant thread derailment concerning other classes?   I don't care about the DoK m4 that they have to spec for, or whatever it is that makes Chosen OP (which hasn't really been defined here).  Fact is, I haven't seen anything on this thread that has convinced me that GP is not OP.  

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Xsorus wrote:

so Lets see, I have an almost RR60 knight and I can tell you right now they're not worse off then Chosen, But i can also tell you Gromil Plating is overpowered because unlike you billy boy, i've played both sides.

 

Its Overpowered and needs a nerf, or you should give it to a Destruction Toon, and then you'd see overpowered.

 

Nothing more silly then watching people argue when they have an overpowered ability.

 

First it was 1001 Blessings, I pointed out thats how thats not even remotely close, then it degraded to Chosen, Pointed out its abilities are available on a Swordmaster, and now he's run out fo things tto talk about..

 

How about this, even without Gromil Plating, the ironbreaker is still the most overpowered toon in the game, far more then the Chosen is..

 

 

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I like you, remind me now to kill you next time we take the field.

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Xsorus wrote:

so Lets see, I have an almost RR60 knight and I can tell you right now they're not worse off then Chosen, But i can also tell you Gromil Plating is overpowered because unlike you billy boy, i've played both sides.

 

Its Overpowered and needs a nerf, or you should give it to a Destruction Toon, and then you'd see overpowered.

 

Nothing more silly then watching people argue when they have an overpowered ability.

 

First it was 1001 Blessings, I pointed out thats how thats not even remotely close, then it degraded to Chosen, Pointed out its abilities are available on a Swordmaster, and now he's run out fo things tto talk about..

 

How about this, even without Gromil Plating, the ironbreaker is still the most overpowered toon in the game, far more then the Chosen is..

 

 

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Unlike you billy boy there are many ppl that believe Chosen has an upper hand and many of us play both sides. Your crying team failed with any arguement here besides this is OP and nerf to the ground. Youve ignored every single example about other classes saying this is fine or not even close. You can get the same opinion about R3 - this is fine, deal with it.

Can you actually make an argument on how this m3 Gromril Plating isn't OP, and not resort to irrelevant thread derailment concerning other classes?   I don't care about the DoK m4 that they have to spec for, or whatever it is that makes Chosen OP (which hasn't really been defined here).  Fact is, I haven't seen anything on this thread that has convinced me that GP is not OP. 

Fact is i havent seen anything here that can convince me that GP is OP considering what other classes do have.

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Tincan wrote:

Fact is i havent seen anything here that can convince me that GP is OP considering what other classes do have.

 

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So, that's a no to Antale's question then.  

Also, being one of the few defenders you have yet to offer an thing in the form of an argument against mirroring or nerfing GP.  All you have done is point at a class and few abilities that have nothing to do with GP.  Those of us arguing for the changes have laid out why it is broken and some have even stated how they should go about fixing it.  Seems like the arguments for are pretty win since you can't come up with any kind of defense for them. 

I just think you're trolling this post hoping to get it locked.

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Doomrot wrote:

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Tincan wrote:

 

Fact is i havent seen anything here that can convince me that GP is OP considering what other classes do have.

 

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So, that's a no to Antale's question then.  

 

Also, being one of the few defenders you have yet to offer an thing in the form of an argument against mirroring or nerfing GP.  All you have done is point at a class and few abilities that have nothing to do with GP.  Those of us arguing for the changes have laid out why it is broken and some have even stated how they should go about fixing it.  Seems like the arguments for are pretty win since you can't come up with any kind of defense for them. 

 

I just think you're trolling this post hoping to get it locked.

Message Edited by Doomrot on 11-03-2009 03:47 PM

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So you have failed to persuade that GP is OP considering other classes in War. Other of your statements are lie as i did give my solution but you didnt like it. Want to get easy mode for your side and pay nothing for it, i see. I just think you are mindlessly whining here hoping that it will work.

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Tincan wrote:

 

So you have failed to persuade that GP is OP considering other classes in War. Other of your statements are lie as i did give my solution but you didnt like it. Want to get easy mode for your side and pay nothing for it, i see. I just think you are mindlessly whining here hoping that it will work.

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  Which of my statements are lies?  Your solution is "nerf that class/ability" if GP gets mirrored or nerfed.  That's not a solution that's a compromise.  A compromise in an area where there shouldn't be one.  If you think that the nerfing or mirroring of GP will make the Destro Realm have easy mode then you have very, very little faith in your Realm.  Mindlessly whining would be complaining about something and not offering facts to back it up.  I have, you have not.  Whom is "mindlessly whining" now?

In order to compare any 2 things, they must be compared on equal footing. 

drawing up comparisons to a M4 vs a M3 is an unfair comparison.  

Here is a link to(what should be) every Morale 3 ability in game.  

http://www.wardb.com/search.aspx?browse=6.2&filters=612=3

In your opinion, Tincan, which of these compares with Gromril Plating?

Comparing GP to another M4, spec or baseline, is not a fair comparison.  

Pointing out other balance issues, valid or otherwise, is not the purpose of this thread.  

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Tincan wrote:

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Doomrot wrote:

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Tincan wrote:

 

Fact is i havent seen anything here that can convince me that GP is OP considering what other classes do have.

 

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So, that's a no to Antale's question then.  

 

Also, being one of the few defenders you have yet to offer an thing in the form of an argument against mirroring or nerfing GP.  All you have done is point at a class and few abilities that have nothing to do with GP.  Those of us arguing for the changes have laid out why it is broken and some have even stated how they should go about fixing it.  Seems like the arguments for are pretty win since you can't come up with any kind of defense for them. 

 

I just think you're trolling this post hoping to get it locked.

Message Edited by Doomrot on 11-03-2009 03:47 PM

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So you have failed to persuade that GP is OP considering other classes in War. Other of your statements are lie as i did give my solution but you didnt like it. Want to get easy mode for your side and pay nothing for it, i see. I just think you are mindlessly whining here hoping that it will work.

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Who are you?  Why do we care what your opinion is?

If you don't think GP needs to be changed, all you needed to do was not kudos.  that is what the kudos system is there for.  

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Doomrot wrote:

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  Which of my statements are lies?  Your solution is "nerf that class/ability" if GP gets mirrored or nerfed.  That's not a solution that's a compromise.  A compromise in an area where there shouldn't be one.  If you think that the nerfing or mirroring of GP will make the Destro Realm have easy mode then you have very, very little faith in your Realm.  Mindlessly whining would be complaining about something and not offering facts to back it up.  I have, you have not.  Whom is "mindlessly whining" now?

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What do you have besides words This is OP? Nothing. You dont need a compromise and i dont need 1 sided nerf. 

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Vrinn wrote:

In order to compare any 2 things, they must be compared on equal footing. 

 

drawing up comparisons to a M4 vs a M3 is an unfair comparison.  

 

Here is a link to(what should be) every Morale 3 ability in game.  

http://www.wardb.com/search.aspx?browse=6.2&filters=612=3

 

In your opinion, Tincan, which of these compares with Gromril Plating?

 

Comparing GP to another M4, spec or baseline, is not a fair comparison.  

Pointing out other balance issues, valid or otherwise, is not the purpose of this thread.  

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My opinion is to give BGs GP and to give IBs some of BGs tactics for that and at the same time buff Kobs to Chosens.

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Coxswain wrote:

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Why do we care what your opinion is?

 

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I dont care about your opinion either, at all.

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Tincan wrote:

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Vrinn wrote:

In order to compare any 2 things, they must be compared on equal footing. 

 

drawing up comparisons to a M4 vs a M3 is an unfair comparison.  

 

Here is a link to(what should be) every Morale 3 ability in game.  

http://www.wardb.com/search.aspx?browse=6.2&filters=612=3

 

In your opinion, Tincan, which of these compares with Gromril Plating?

 

Comparing GP to another M4, spec or baseline, is not a fair comparison.  

Pointing out other balance issues, valid or otherwise, is not the purpose of this thread.  

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My opinion is to give BGs GP and to give IBs some of BGs tactics for that and at the same time buff Kobs to Chosens.

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Giving BG tactics to IB will easily push the class far out of line.  Just as giving BGs an equivelant to Gromril Plating will push that class out of line.  

Which is why nearly every person to make a presence in this thread has suggested that the Morale either be brought in line with other morale 3 abilities, or removed.  It is not possibly to balance the IB against other tanks, let alone against the BG while GP remains in its current state.  

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Tincan wrote:

What do you have besides words This is OP? Nothing. You dont need a compromise and i dont need 1 sided nerf. 

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I have posted several things to you and others in this thread.  All were done by presenting facts and not hyperbole.  All you have been doing is pointing at unrelated comparisons, while all of them have their mirror on Order side, and have provided no substantiated evidence or facts concerning your oppositiong to the subject at hand.  When asked a question about your accusations you immediately ignore the fact that you made them.  So far your position is thus:

Chosen are OP nerf them.

1001 is OP nerf it.

Nerfing GP would provide easy mode for Destruction.

You keep running in circles.  Providing nothing but hyperbole and strawmen arguments.  If you had a position to where it was at least arguable, then I would abstain from further comment.  However, all I just see is poor attempts to lock the thread.

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Doomrot wrote:

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I have posted several things to you and others in this thread.

 

 

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You will deny every single example which can ruin your theory of one-sided nerfs as you do value only your personal opinion and others who agree with you. You cant provide with valid reasons why this is more OP then other abilities, besides your biased view. Doesnt matter do you like it or not, this is not your private place where you can read only those who do share your faith. I strongly disagree with you and see no sense in your idea besides desire to get easy-mode for yourself.

It would not be a 1-sided nerf in the sense that you are trying to make it seem--no other class has that core m3 ability.   Nobody has anything remotely close.  Again the best thing I have as a healer, group bubble wise, protects only against melee damage and only for 4500 damage for 10 seconds.  

The thing is, all healers have that bubble morale.  It's not something that's unique to the AM.  I'm not sure why IB should be any difference in regards to this particular morale, especially given that it's a core m3 that is better than many class's m4 that they have to spec into--it's not right.