Talisman Making Guide for after Patch 1.3

Note: I made a separate webpage with information that is better laid out and has more details:

http://home.comcast.net/~serapisphoenix/warhammer/talisman.html

Ingredients and How to Determine Their Power: 
There are 9 Tiers of ingredients (not counting training frags) 
Skill 1 = Tier 1 
Skill 25 = Tier 2 
Skill 50 = Tier 3 
Skill 75 = Tier 4 
Skill 100 = Tier 5 
Skill 125 = Tier 6 
Skill 150 = Tier 7 
Skill 175 = Tier 8 
Skill 200 = Tier 9 

For Fragments the power equals 2x the tier (example: tier 7 fragment would have 14 power). 

For the other 3 ingredients the power equals the tier number (example: tier 7 curio has 7 power) 

When making a talisman all that matters is the combined power of the 4 items. 

*Note: skill 200 containers have +1 power on them but none of the other containers do. 

Stat Talisman: 
*Using store bought frags make a tier zero result (training) which will no be included in any further info but they are +1 stat and level 1 requirment. 

*some of the number at the lower power values are missing in the following table due to lack of testing at those ranges. 

Tier...Power.......Level.Prefix.......White...Green...Blue...Purp 
1...... 2-8........... 1...... Feeble...... 3.........7..........11......15 
2...... 9-13......... 6...... Weak....... 4.........8..........12......16 
3...... 14-18....... 6...... Inferior..... 5.........9..........13......17 
4...... 19-23....... 11.... Lesser...... 6.........10........14......18 
5...... 24-28....... 11.... Minor ........7.........11........15......19 
6...... 29-33....... 21.... (Nothing).. 8.........12........16......20 
7...... 34-38....... 21.... Major....... 9.........13........17......21 
8...... 39-44....... 31.... Greater.... 10.......14........18......22 

9...... 45-46....... 31.... Superior... 11.......15........19......23 
10..... ................36.....Potent......12.......16........20......24 

Getting a critical increases your total power by 6. 
Getting a special increases your total power by 1 and bumps you up one color.

Getting a special with a purple frag give you back the frag since instead of giving a color bump (since there is no color above purple)

Example: Using Ingredients that give you a total power of 41 and a blue fragment. A normal result would give you a Greater talisman which in blue is +18. A critical would give you a Superior which in blue is +19. A special would give you a purple Greater which is +22. 

Armor Talisman:

Armor talisman work just like stats talisman above except that the value of the armor bonus is the number from the table above multiplied by 7.5, then rounded down.

Example:  Green Major Armor Talisman.  From the table above we get that green major talisman is +13.  13x7.5 is 97.5, which you round down to +97. 

Resist Talisman:

Basically to make this a formula to convert from the stat talisman table (rather than making a whole new table), I had to create a new variable which I will call color.  This variable is simply a numeric value given to the color of the talisman where white = 1, green = 2, blue = 3, and purple = 4.

If you do that then the conversion formula is:

((Stat value from table above) - color) x 5

Examples:

 Purple Greater on stat table is 22 and for purple color = 4, so (22 - 4) x 5 = 90.

 Blue Lesser on stat table is 14 and for blue color = 3, so (14 - 3) x 5 = 55.

 Green Major on stat table is 13 and for green color = 2, so (13 - 2) x 5 = 55.

 White Minor on stat table is 7 and for white color = 1, so (7 - 1) x 5 = 30.

Crit Chance Talisman: 
The value of the bonus is based only on the color of the talisman. Green Talisman are always 2%. Blue Talisman are always 3% and Purple Talisman are always 4%.   (I have yet to see a white but I assume they are 1%)

The Tier determines the durations on the talisman. So far I only have these: 
(Nothing) - 6d 
Major - 9d 
Greater - 10d 
Superior - 13d 
Potent - 14d 

Power Talisman:  

To determine the bonus of a +power talisman simply find out what a stat talisman with the same ingredients would produce, multiply that by 1.5 and round up.

Example: A blue greater melee power talisman will be +27 (18x1.5).  A blue superior will be +29 (19x1.5= 28.5, round up to 29)

This is straight from the 1.3 patch notes.

Serapis,

The best source for the crit% and power fragments that I have found are "Oaken Figurines" that are available in the loot bags from the Ch 21 and 22 PQ's.  These are blue rarity, and salvage into green fragments typically (except for when they crit, resulting in a blue fragment).

Earlier PQ's might have a green version of a Figurine for salvaging into white Crit % / Power fragments (I just don't know).

Get in a group that can generate a large quantity of bags, salvage away for the criticals, and you can get blue rarity fragments without needing to buy stuff from the Auction House (I know that matters to some).

Another note about +power talismans - I believe we will find that the values on the +power talismans are equal to 1.5x the stat values.

So if a particular recipe would result in an 18 stat, then it would instead result in a +27 power (melee, healing, or magic).  I don't have any cheap power fragments yet that I would be willing to sacrifice to this knowledge gathering.

Given that the 1.5x pattern holds true, I also don't know whether fractions round up or down (i.e. - would a 19 stat recipe instead yield a 29 power or a 28 power recipe).

Hope that makes sense.

I may sacrifice a few of my Oaken Figurines to test, if nobody else responds with definitive information first (I'm pretty sure the info is out there now - I won't need to test).

Alright leaving in a few minutes here but I checked wardb and it seemed to support your 1.5x explanation so I added that in (also noticed that the level requirment for potent in my chart was wrong so I fixed that).

Also found some green crit chance talisman on wardb and they were indeed 2% so I added that in too.  Unfortunately wardb does not show durations so I wasn't able to get any more info on that. 

Has anyone figured out yet if your talisman making skill contributes to power, like it used to? Before 1.3, there was a +3 bonus at 200, +2 at 175-199, and +1 at 150-174.

My guess would be that they have dropped this, or reduce the number of steps in it, because 1.3 effectively makes the power scale about four times coarser.

re: Figurines providing the usual stat options...

Make sure you have taken the "Oaken Figurine" from the loot bag Serapis, rather than the Primal Figurine.

Oaken for crit % and +power options.

Primal for stat options.

Tzs - your skill does contribute from what I've read elsewhere.

The charts you see at the top of this thread and elsewhere assume that you have 200 Tali Making skill (and the associated plus).

The crit % is explained up there... it works differently.

Armor I can probably figure out pretty easily.... let me look. 

ok armor appears to be <what ever the stat would have been> x 7.5  then rounded down.

I added the info to the top post.

I have some trash stuff to salvage for essence, I'll try to use that to figure out resist talisman for sure (never really bothered with em myself) 

---

Serapis wrote:

Talisman Making Guide for after Patch 1.3

 

 

Tier...Power.......Level.Prefix.......White...Green...Blue...Purp 
1...... 2-6........... 1...... Feeble...... 3.........7..........11......15 
2...... 9.............. 6...... Weak....... 4.........8..........12......16 
3...... 14-19....... 6...... Inferior..... 5.........9..........13......17 
4...... 20-24....... 11.... Lesser...... 6.........10........14......18 
5...... 25-29....... 11.... Minor ........7.........11........15......19 
6...... 30-34....... 21.... (Nothing).. 8.........12........16......20 


Getting a critical bumps your result up 1 tier. 
Getting a special keeps you on the same tier but bumps you up a color. 
Getting a special with a purple frag simply gives you back the frag. 

Example: Using Ingredients that give you a total power of 41 and a blue fragment. A normal result would give you a Greater talisman which in blue is +18. A critical would give you a Superior which in blue is +19. A special would give you a purple Greater which is +22. 

---

Ok this is what I don't understand.  If I use a tier 1 fragment but use tier 5 white fillers I'd have a total of 24 power according to that table.  So that would mean that my talisman would then convert into a rank 6 required purple +18 talisman?  Not really sure if I'm reading that table right or not.  I'm asking because I'm trying to get good gems for me & my friends who are all in the teens (and my alts too).  I've got 100 something TM on my talisman maker while my AM has scavaging of 125+.   If I'm reading that table right I can make sure that I make a purple or blue rank 1 talisman every time I make something just as long as I use rank 100 fillers with my fragment.

The fragment color determines the talisman color. If you use a white fragment and have a total power of 24 you will make a white  Lvl 11 +6 stat talisman.

Getting a crit will change the outcome, making the talisman one color better or bumping you into the next tier if you are on the edge of the next tier.

---

Shanro wrote:

The fragment color determines the talisman color. If you use a white fragment and have a total power of 24 you will make a white  Lvl 11 +6 stat talisman.

 

Getting a crit will change the outcome, making the talisman one color better or bumping you into the next tier if you are on the edge of the next tier.

---

Ok just seeing if I get this correct in my head.  If I use say a lvl 1 white-quality strength fragment (gives +1 power to the equation) and then add in lvl 100 curior/powder/essence (5*3=15) and come up with a power of 16 that would give me a tier 3 white talisman that requires rank 6 inferior +5 strength gem unless it procs a crit and would give me a green +9 strength requiring rank 6?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding this whole thing.

Also I've noticed that all quality of pieces can say "meager" or "average" on them.  Does that mean that a meager green would give more power than a average white quality or does that even matter?  When I get back in game I'll post 2 names to show the difference so you can see what I'm talking about incase you don't know.

---

Gaymer wrote:

---

Shanro wrote:

The fragment color determines the talisman color. If you use a white fragment and have a total power of 24 you will make a white  Lvl 11 +6 stat talisman.

 

Getting a crit will change the outcome, making the talisman one color better or bumping you into the next tier if you are on the edge of the next tier.

---

 

Ok just seeing if I get this correct in my head.  If I use say a lvl 1 white-quality strength fragment (gives +1 power to the equation) and then add in lvl 100 curior/powder/essence (5*3=15) and come up with a power of 16 that would give me a tier 3 white talisman that requires rank 6 inferior +5 strength gem unless it procs a crit and would give me a green +9 strength requiring rank 6?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding this whole thing.

 

Also I've noticed that all quality of pieces can say "meager" or "average" on them.  Does that mean that a meager green would give more power than a average white quality or does that even matter?  When I get back in game I'll post 2 names to show the difference so you can see what I'm talking about incase you don't know.

---

First off, if you're using a level 1 white frag make sure it's not a store bought one... I mention at the top that the frags you buy from merchants follow different rules and to the best of my knowledge always create lowest possible talisman regardless of what you add to it.

 Second, if you're using a skill 1 frag from salvage/scavenge then the frag is actually worth 2 power.

 Also, remember that I did very little testing at low powers (hence the gaps in some of the numbers). 

Also, I'm not sure if you understood the crit part from your post.  There are two separate kind of crits.  The first (more common and usually just called a crit) kind raises the talisman up one tier higher than what the chart predicts, but does not change the color.  The other (less common and general refered to as a special) keeps you in the same tier but bumps you up to the next color.

 That said when you make a talisman there are only 3 things that matter for the result: 

  First, the color of the fragment.  This will determine the color of the talisman.

Second, the total power from all 5 ingredients.  This will determine what tier it's in.

Third, whether the result was normal, critical, or special.

 That's it... nothing else matters at all.

 So, using your example of a skill 1 white frag (not store bought) and all 3 additives being skill 100 and while you didn't specify which container I'm assuming it's not a skill 200 container, you get this:

Color of Fragment: White

Total power: 17

So, if no crit you would get a white inferior talisman which for stats is +5 and requires level 6 to use.

If you got a normal crit you would get a white Lesser talisman which for stats is +6 and requires level 11 to use.

 If you got a special you would get a green inferior talisman which for stats is +9 and requires level 6 to use. 

What about different colored Curios? I've seen blues and purps. How much extra power do they add to the equation?

Thanks!

None.  They are leftovers from before the patch and can not be obtained anymore.  Rather than just making them worthless what mythic did was make them all the same power but give them a bonus crit chance.

So, the white curios that can still be obtained have a 1% bonus to crit chance.

 The green curios are the same power but have a 5% bonus to crit chance.

 The blue curios are the same power but have a 10% bonus to crit chance.

 The Purple curios are the same power but have a 15% bonus to crit chance. 

Made a slight edit to the chart.  I was making talismen for my lowbie slayer and noticed that 29 power was making a higher tier than my chart said it should (blue frag with 29 power was making +16 not +15) .

As always if someone else finds a situation where it doesn't match up like that please let me know.  (Or, if you make a lot of very low level talismen and want to help me fill in the correct power numbers for the first few tiers)